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Post by Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H. on Sept 9, 2014 6:35:12 GMT -6
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Post by Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H. on Sept 9, 2014 6:41:41 GMT -6
I have now completed my validation of the ballots.
This means that at least 1 person went thru all of the 115 ballots to ensure they were valid.
It doesn't mean they are valid, as I am the one who entered them in the first place.
It is thus possible that I initially misread an email, and misread it the same way when I did the validation.
But I am confident we are now valid.
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Sept 9, 2014 8:05:00 GMT -6
A question about that:
2 votes, those of Aspra R. Laira, and of Mà la Mhà, were marked as invalid by Commissioner Tamoran. They read "pending" as of now. May we have a statement for the public, as to why these votes were un(in)validated?
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Post by Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H. on Sept 9, 2014 8:41:59 GMT -6
A question about that: 2 votes, those of Aspra R. Laira, and of Mà la Mhà, were marked as invalid by Commissioner Tamoran. They read "pending" as of now. May we have a statement for the public, as to why these votes were un(in)validated? Because they were fixed. The error was in their referendum votes. There was a manual error entering them when I noted them. Both were fixed, so they need to be revalidated again.
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Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
Posts: 1,401
Talossan Since: 9-27-2010
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Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on Sept 12, 2014 3:26:53 GMT -6
There will be a very brief hiatus whilst I go back to revalidate the vote of citizen 211 Aspra Laira (which, by inspection, is now recorded correctly - but I can't push the right button just at the moment).
Unofficially: I have inspected the database entries of all votes and compared them against the information made available to me of the actual voting, and I am happy that the database, at this time (Friday 12 September 2014, 11:25 UTC) is correct. I shall make an official announcement when I have been able to validate the final entry.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Sept 12, 2014 4:26:28 GMT -6
I have inspected the database entries of all votes and compared them against the information made available to me of the actual voting, and I am happy that the database, at this time (Friday 12 September 2014, 11:25 UTC) is correct. You are aware that citizen 429, Cresti Newton, is under the age of 14? I don't see how he can cast a legal ballot in a Talossan general election.
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Post by Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H. on Sept 12, 2014 5:56:46 GMT -6
I have inspected the database entries of all votes and compared them against the information made available to me of the actual voting, and I am happy that the database, at this time (Friday 12 September 2014, 11:25 UTC) is correct. You are aware that citizen 429, Cresti Newton, is under the age of 14? I don't see how he can cast a legal ballot in a Talossan general election. It is the opinion of the Chancery that a citizen under the age of 14 can cast a PRESENT vote to indicate they wish to remain a citizen, even if they do not have the right to vote. Citizen Newton voted after consulting with the Chancery on what to do. The Chancery is open to other interpretations for the next election, but at this moment, ran the election that way.
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Sept 12, 2014 6:00:25 GMT -6
A citizen under 14 is not entitled to vote - period Therefore, a citizen under 14 cannot cast any vote - be it for a party, be it to an abstention, or be it a "PRESENT" vote. It cannot, and I hope that the rest of the Election Commission will render this, and any other vote cast by underage citizens, as invalid.
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Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on Sept 12, 2014 6:13:29 GMT -6
A citizen under 14 is not entitled to vote - period Therefore, a citizen under 14 cannot cast any vote - be it for a party, be it to an abstention, or be it a "PRESENT" vote. It cannot, and I hope that the rest of the Election Commission will render this, and any other vote cast by underage citizens, as invalid. It's no big deal and I'd be prepared to let it pass for now, but Epic is of course correct: A PRESENT vote is also a vote and should not be counted from minors.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Sept 12, 2014 7:00:03 GMT -6
It is the opinion of the Chancery that a citizen under the age of 14 can cast a PRESENT vote to indicate they wish to remain a citizen, even if they do not have the right to vote. If it's a "vote", then a citizen under 14 can't cast it. If it's not a "vote", then it's just a message to the SoS with no legal effect that shouldn't be reported as part of the election results. You could be setting a dangerous precedent here. Also, you're screwing up voter turnout figures for purposes of comparison with previous elections by counting an underage citizen as an "eligible voter" and a ballot cast by an underage citizen in the number of ballots cast.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Sept 12, 2014 7:23:50 GMT -6
The law states "The Cosâ is the national legislative assembly and is elected by universal popular vote by all adult citizens (age 14 and over)." (Org.VII.1) This provision is the essential statement of who is allowed to vote in the country, and is referenced by other provisions in such a manner that leaves no doubt that it is the central defining clause in this matter. We are told that the vote is "universal," meaning that it extends to everyone regardless of their race, class, or gender. We are told that it is "popular," meaning that voters are not choosing electors, who might then exercise a franchise to pick one party or another, but that they are directly electing parties as their representatives. We are told that only citizens may vote, excluding non-citizens or prospective citizens. And we are told that only adults may vote, and the age of 14 is defined as legal adulthood in this regard.
The problem with allowing ballots that defy any aspect of these restrictions - even ones that are "botched" or invalid for an actual vote, like a "present" vote - is that it presumes that there is any freedom to ignore any aspect of how the vote is defined. If we say that, "Well, only adults can vote for the Cosa, sure, but this isn't really a vote, so we're counting it," then we're suggesting that we can also ignore or add other aspects of voting. It would be the same if we were to say, "Also, the Chancery will collect and publish the votes of prospective immigrants, even though they don't count."
On balance, the intention is good, but in my opinion, citizens younger than fourteen cannot vote in any way. If they accumulate one strike, tough luck. They can vote when they're old enough to vote, or even (preferably) wait until they're fourteen to immigrate.
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Sept 12, 2014 9:15:15 GMT -6
If they accumulate one strike, tough luck. They cannot be punished for not voting, whilst they are not allowed to vote. Any strike a minor citizen would accumulate, would be... well, illegal at best. They could contest it in court easily.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Sept 12, 2014 9:40:07 GMT -6
They cannot be punished for not voting, whilst they are not allowed to vote. Any strike a minor citizen would accumulate, would be... well, illegal at best. They could contest it in court easily. I agree. This is consistent with el Lexhatx E.13.1, which codifies the longstanding consensus that only citizens who are eligible to vote get strikes for not voting.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Sept 12, 2014 11:59:38 GMT -6
You have a good point, yes! Thank goodness, that would have been a bad spot.
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Post by Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H. on Sept 12, 2014 12:13:13 GMT -6
You have a good point, yes! Thank goodness, that would have been a bad spot. It wasn't 100% clear at that point, so I proposed to let them vote a PRESENT vote, since they are not counted in the final tally.
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