Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on Nov 10, 2017 16:22:10 GMT -6
Oy, vey...
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on Nov 10, 2017 16:16:12 GMT -6
I would not recommend a with circumflex because that's the stress-marked form of the a with diaeresis. The breve is a bitch to spell on a standard Windows or Linux international keyboard, though. I'm pretty sure there are ways to map certain characters to certain keys using your computer's settings.
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on Nov 10, 2017 16:12:48 GMT -6
BTW, I'd like to create a definition of the word "change". Change, when used in the context of "an edition to el glheþ Talossan that is introduced to a committee", would mean one thing one wishes to edit. Adding or removing one letter. Adding or removing one sound. Changing the word order for one construction or part of speech. Here's a guide: if you can write your change in a single sentence that doesn't contain the word "and" as in "conjunction added to the penultimate object in a list of objects", you're good to go. I'd also like to specify that la SIGN will use the Talossan language as it existed on November 10, 2017 as a starting point and build from there. Any change may be introduced.I'm currently creating a site on Wix to use as a base of operations. If somebody would like to create a chat, such as on Discord, to use for testing changes and general conversation in Talossan, be my guest. There is no one Talossan language as existed on the 10 th of Novembre 2017. That is the whole reason for our wishes to introduce change. I mean as codified on the talossan.com website.
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on Nov 10, 2017 15:53:08 GMT -6
BTW, I'd like to create a definition of the word "change". Change, when used in the context of "an edition to el glheþ Talossan that is introduced to a committee", would mean one thing one wishes to edit. Adding or removing one letter. Adding or removing one sound. Changing the word order for one construction or part of speech. Here's a guide: if you can write your change in a single sentence that doesn't contain the word "and" as in "conjunction added to the penultimate object in a list of objects", you're good to go.
I'd also like to specify that la SIGN will use the Talossan language as it existed on November 10, 2017 as a starting point and build from there. Any change may be introduced.
I'm currently creating a site on Wix to use as a base of operations. If somebody would like to create a chat, such as on Discord, to use for testing changes and general conversation in Talossan, be my guest.
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on Nov 10, 2017 12:57:14 GMT -6
Personally, I feel that the current orthography has the perfect amount of quirkiness. It's got some weird digraphs and thorn and eth, and enough diacritics to make it interesting to look at, but it's not over the top bristling with them and adding more sounds than the language needs to be understandable.
If it's hard for people to tell the difference between /æ/ and /ɛ/, get rid of e and replace it with ä denoting the /ɛ/ sound. That gets rid of another sound. AFAIK, there aren't any words where ä and e are in the same place and distinguishing the two requires distinguishing the vowels. As a corollary, you could revert the infinitive ending to -rë, but you'd no longer need the diaeresis over the ë.
I actually wouldn't mind a feminine-noun/qualifier final a with breve. Looks kinda cool, and Romanian, I think, has a relatively understated role compared to other Romance languages. I would not recommend a with circumflex because that's the stress-marked form of the a with diaeresis.
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on Nov 10, 2017 6:44:56 GMT -6
Esperanto originally had a familiarity/politeness/number distinction in the second person, not unlike French. Ci was supposed to be used with close friends or relatives, or in situations with low formality, when talking to individuals. This distinction has since died down, making Vi the de facto only 2nd person pronoun. EDIT: By the way, shouldnt it be "Ili lavas siN"? Its the direct object after all. Yeah, soon after Zamenhof released the Unua Libro, he said “don’t use ci, just use vi.” Also, you’re right. Lapse of attention. Actually, Zamenhof tried to get rid of the accusative case as well. But, as many of the unuaj Esperantistoj were Polish and German, it caught on way more quickly than he thought.
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on Nov 9, 2017 12:44:26 GMT -6
I'm just going to reiterate my opinion.
I'm fine with the current orthography. I believe it is what best represents the language. I do not believe it should be restored to a previous Arestada, and I do not feel it needs to be revised.
Perhaps I feel this way because the current orthography is the same as the one I started learning Talossan with. If the will of the Ladintschen is not in line with my wishes, I suppose I'll have to deal with that. Do as you will.
Sa viva el glheþ Talossan!
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on Nov 9, 2017 7:59:10 GMT -6
I would also suggest not bringing å (a with the little circle) back to the language. Distinguishing between it and o would be a pain because, once again, they're created in very similar places.
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on Nov 9, 2017 7:15:37 GMT -6
and eliminates allophones, while also being able to distinguish between short and long vowels based on prescribed rules. Firstly, I don't know what you're trying to say with "eliminates allophones". Secondly, Talossan has no phonemic vowel length and thus no rules for writing them; I'd like to know where you got that info from. Now, I’m open to changes so long as the vowel system doesn’t change radically. As in, no adding new/old vowels that are rather difficult to distinguish between. And keep ð. It helps with importing words like ívenðo and stöð. What is and isn't difficult to distinguish is entirely subjective (also see above for my comment about vowels). Regarding ð, if -- hypothetically -- it'd turn out that the sequence /nd/ is always [nð], would you be opposed to respelling words like ívenðo with a D? Firstly, I was saying "eliminates allophones" as in "eliminates similar-sounding vocalics". The current Talossan vowel system has 8 vowels. There five main domains of vocalics: ah, eh, ee, oh, and oo. The vowel system contains the five "base" vowels, a, e, i, o and u, plus ä, which sounds completely different from a due to its different positioning in the mouth, ö, which is distinguished from e by rounding, and ü, which is distinguished from i by rounding as well. Secondly, Talossan, as you correctly pointed out, doesn't have phonemic vowel length. But it does have something I term "phonetic vowel length." In English, when young children are taught phonetics, they're often told about "long" and "short" vowels. I was merely recycling the term here. "Long" vowels are stressed ones and "short" vowels are unstressed ones. What is and isn't difficult distinguish depends on tongue placement relative to other vowels. Î is very similar to i. Î is the close central unrounded vowel. I is the close front unrounded vowel. They're pronounced in nearly the same place. Therefore they sound similar. Now, in slow speech, they may sound different, but think about trying to distinguish between î and i in rapid speech? Besides, I'm willing to say that î is probably the most difficult vowel sound I've ever tried to say. The ability to understand the language hasn't been marred by the absence of î. I ask that it remain unrestored to the language, whatever the circumstances of its banishment in the first place. As to your proposal on ð, I think it's a good compromise between keeping it where it is and deleting it entirely.
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on Nov 8, 2017 22:00:46 GMT -6
S:reu Dursley sesteva imrè cün sieu rüc àl fenestra din sieu óifisch sur el noualaiset estatx. Schi non, o fortaßis tenadra tenescu 'n temps pü unfáþil cuncentrarh sur els siglhéux acest morgun. O non videva els uis volent adelmás in ac'hia vasta, mas els perziuns sur la strada videvent belacops; os püntaçevent es mirevent, lor bocas apneschti. El püparts da lor non tignhovent víuts 'n uglh, ni in el nic'ht. S:reu Dursley, masmint, tignhov'iens morgun parfätsmint normal es ulattä. O uiveva à simca perziuns underschidlec'hs. O façeva severais calleux impirtints. O esteva in 'n trei buna moda txusca el temps dal miðziueziun, quand il penseva qe o estericadra sieux gambas es marscharh trans la strada per se comprarh 'n fogaßet dal cuscha.
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on Nov 7, 2017 16:56:27 GMT -6
Well, I'm open to changes. I almost certain there's some imperfection in the orthography that I've glossed over up till now. Let's see what Sir Cresti has to say.
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on Nov 7, 2017 16:30:33 GMT -6
I'd also like to take a moment to admit that, despite my slightly more extensive than average study of Talossan, my knowledge does not even begin to approach that of Sir Cresti and, as such, my statements and requests may be at times less informed than his.
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on Nov 7, 2017 16:16:40 GMT -6
I am, honesrly, quite happy with the current orthography. It describes the language quite well, and eliminates allophones, while also being able to distinguish between short and long vowels based on prescribed rules.
Now, I’m open to changes so long as the vowel system doesn’t change radically. As in, no adding new/old vowels that are rather difficult to distinguish between. And keep ð. It helps with importing words like ívenðo and stöð.
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on Nov 6, 2017 19:47:07 GMT -6
Actually, what else would be awesome would be something akin to the Walker Immigration Act. Another blast from the past! The earliest that citizenship could be granted in this fashion is December 21st, which would probably be long after mpf eventually gets around to seeing this. Well, I would hope that we wouldn't have to go like that, but I'm just saying it would pretty awesome if it did.
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on Nov 6, 2017 19:46:03 GMT -6
Articles Esperanto only has a definite article, la. It doesn't change. It's used approximately where English uses it, with the only main difference being that it can be used for general statements about an object, e.g. la leono mordas lit. "the lion bites," more like "lions bite". The indefinite article is implied. Knabo persekutas kato "a boy chases a cat" AdjectivesEvery adjective ends in -a. Every. Single. One. Are you sure? you say. YES!!!Every single goddamn one!!! Unless, of course, the noun it goes with is plural. Or in the accusative case. Adjectives agree in number (singular or plural) and case (nominative or accusative). But it's really simple. Just add -j for pluralized adjectives and -n for adjectives in the accusative. Same order, -jn for plural accusative adjectives. Here's a sample declension of an adjective and a noun for you: man | singular | plural | nominative | viro | viroj | accusative | viron | virojn |
good | singular | plural | nominative | bona | bonaj | accusative | bonan | bonajn |
As for positioning, an adjective can go before or after a noun. While I'm at it... Pronouns Pronouns ALWAYS end in -i. All. Of. Them!!!! Are you tricking us? you say. NO! Here are the pronouns: PRONOUNS | Singular | Plural | 1st person | Mi | Ni | 2nd person | Ci | Vi | 3rd person | Li, Ŝi, Ĝi | Ili |
There's also a general pronoun, oni. Just like in Talossan. Sort of like "one" or a general "we" in English. Oni estas homoj. We are all humans. There's also a reflexive pronoun, si. Ili lavis sin, they washed themselves (thanks for that, Marcel). There aren't any verbs that require a reflexive pronoun. Ci has never been in common use. Just use vi. Lots in this lesson, but it's pretty simple. I'll get around to something later on.
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