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Post by Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H. on Jul 26, 2014 14:44:17 GMT -6
That's very interesting, Sir. A final leaked document has just been brought to my attention in which you are quoted as saying "Tim is an obvious candidate for a knighthood" in this regard and that "we should let him make the call as to whether to be outed". bump We want answers! The population of Talossa deserve an answer...
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jul 26, 2014 15:15:58 GMT -6
Was a question asked? I didn't see one.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 26, 2014 15:32:03 GMT -6
The RUMP have always been skilled at "playing dumb", obfuscating, etc. But I'll play along.
The question is: evidence has been forwarded to the Government and the A-G's office, as well as party leaders, that the King was not only informed by Manus about keeping Tim's involvement quiet, but agreed that he deserved a knighthood for it. I would like His Majesty to explain how this tallies with his denial that he knew anything about it and certainly didn't countenance any reward for (apparently) breaking the law. Yes, I know it was a "I can't recall" situation... I don't remember that working in the Watergate hearings, though.
An uncharitable interpretation would be that His Majesty, John First of that name, Ár Regeu amat etc., is prevaricating to distance himself from the unfolding scandal. To settle all such uncharitable chatter, I do hope that His Majesty will pledge to fully co-operate, under oath if required, with the A-G's investigation.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jul 26, 2014 15:44:35 GMT -6
The question is: evidence has been forwarded to the Government and the A-G's office, as well as party leaders, that the King was not only informed by Manus about keeping Tim's involvement quiet, but agreed that he deserved a knighthood for it. I would like His Majesty to explain how this tallies with his denial that he knew anything about it and certainly didn't countenance any reward for (apparently) breaking the law. Yes, I know it was a "I can't recall" situation... I don't remember that working in the Watergate hearings, though. That's exactly what Hooligan said happened. And when Hooligan explained, the King did not deny it, he said he hadn't recalled hearing that but that was probably his own fault for not paying better attention. Is there some other part of this new final-final leak that is actually incriminating or that contradicts Hooligan's account? You suggest that the RUMP is obfuscating, but it seems to me that you are relying heavily on innuendo and insinuation here.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 26, 2014 15:57:23 GMT -6
Yes. The evidence does back up Hooligan's account 100% in this regard.
The point I'm making is that the King's exact wording, in the evidence I've seen, makes it very, very hard to believe that he "didn't recall" and "wasn't paying attention". If I were to write a letter stoutly agreeing, for example, that REO Speedwagon is the greatest band in history, you might raise an eyebrow at me saying later "I can't recall... I wasn't paying attention to the Speedwagon-related conversation". And the greater point is that this implicates the Monarchy in the planned cover-up, which is being investigated as a criminal conspiracy. Surely the King's duty was to say "you were going to hide this and not recuse yourselves? For shame!"
BTW, have you just been declared spokesperson for the Royal Household, or is every RUMP grandee entitled to speak for the Throne?
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jul 26, 2014 16:06:52 GMT -6
So wait, if you're working with the Attorney-General to prosecute this case, why are you demanding that people keep commenting about it? It seems mildly improper for the head of another party, who is currently Distain, working to rush through a prosecution... but significantly worse that you're then also trying to engage in a public inquisition. I know it benefits the ZRT and your own ideological goals, but it doesn't seem right.
Like folks have wisely said, let's let justice go through its course.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jul 26, 2014 16:49:31 GMT -6
And the greater point is that this implicates the Monarchy in the planned cover-up, which is being investigated as a criminal conspiracy. Surely the King's duty was to say "you were going to hide this and not recuse yourselves? For shame!" Wait a minute. Did the final final leak say anything about a plan not to recuse? If not, you're making an unfair insinuation. BTW, have you just been declared spokesperson for the Royal Household, or is every RUMP grandee entitled to speak for the Throne? Nope. Have you been declared Grand Inquisitor of the Crown? If so, then as Alexandreu says, maybe you should focus on assessing whether there is a case to be made in a court of law, rather than trying to provoke a rush to judgment in the court of public opinion by advancing "uncharitable" interpretations of the King's actions.
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Post by Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H. on Jul 26, 2014 19:14:23 GMT -6
Nope. Have you been declared Grand Inquisitor of the Crown? If so, then as Alexandreu says, maybe you should focus on assessing whether there is a case to be made in a court of law, rather than trying to provoke a rush to judgment in the court of public opinion by advancing "uncharitable" interpretations of the King's actions. One the side effects of an unelected position with no regular oversight via an election, is that ANYONE becomes a Grand Inquisitor. When elected, you can say "I have the legitmacy of the electors". When not elected, you are as naked as the Emperor in his new clothes. This is not a pro-republican statement, but rather a statement that when one is not-elected, transparency is even more crucial, due to the lack of a clear mandate from the electors.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 26, 2014 19:57:47 GMT -6
The Attorney-General is in charge of the legal aspects of this case. I am behaving as a politician, challenging the RUMP leadership to do the decent thing - which would be to disassociate themselves from Hooligan's shenanigans, which if not criminal, look shady. By rallying around Hooligan and the King, you are ensuring that your party is tied to his fate in Cort.
I repeat: if Manus told the King "Tim made the investigative breakthrough, but we're hushing it up so as he doesn't have to recuse himself" and the King said "Tim deserves a knighthood for this", then the King has implicated himself in the biggest real scandal since... well, the ESB debacle. John R appears not to have clean hands in this. "I don't remember... I don't recall... I have no memory of anything at all" is a great song by Peter Gabriel, but shockingly inappropriate from the Head of State.
It would behoove the RUMP to recognize this and discuss how we can prevent this happening in future, than mindlessly backing up dodgy and criminal-appearing acts from their co-founder, and complicity from their beloved Monarchy. Alexandreu, Cresti, Mick: you take yourselves out of the line of fire instantly by distancing yourself from Manus. Nothing in this implicates any of you, but your continued defence is dragging the RUMP down.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 26, 2014 20:00:50 GMT -6
It seems mildly improper for the head of another party, who is currently Distain, working to rush through a prosecution... What rush? The A-G is following his own schedule. I am only acting as his advisor, and occasionally his proof-reader (legal English is tough even for Anglophones). Not all the material witnesses have even been interviewed.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 26, 2014 20:03:06 GMT -6
"Miestrâ, who died and made you Grand Inquisitor?" Answer: Tomás de Torquemada himself! Take it away, Mel Brooks!
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 26, 2014 20:48:09 GMT -6
It seems mildly improper for the head of another party, who is currently Distain, working to rush through a prosecution... What rush? The A-G is following his own schedule. I am only acting as his advisor, and occasionally his proof-reader (legal English is tough even for Anglophones). Not all the material witnesses have even been interviewed. Just as a ( admittedly snide ) side comment - if our AG follows the same schedule he has followed to bring charges against ESB (for his actions) ... It may be years before we see any actions above the level of "investigation".
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jul 26, 2014 21:37:00 GMT -6
No, somehow I think that the charges against former ZRT member ESB will be delayed even further, even as other charges are completed in record time
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 26, 2014 22:12:38 GMT -6
Funny how no-one in the Beagle Boys RUMP clubhouse thought that nailing a former citizen for electoral and immigration fraud was any kind of priority until a current citizen who happens to be "one of theirs" got investigated. Tell ya what - let Eric petition for citizenship again, don't shoot him down this time, and I'll make sure the A-G nails him. Deal?
Of course, this government did try to get ESB back into the country so he could stand trial. The RUMP Senators petitioned against it and shot it down. Game, set, match.
Watch the RUMP continue to club together to distract from the fact that their party founder did something dodgy and possibly illegal.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 26, 2014 22:33:10 GMT -6
Funny how no-one in the Beagle Boys RUMP clubhouse thought that nailing a former citizen for electoral and immigration fraud was any kind of priority until a current citizen who happens to be "one of theirs" got investigated. Tell ya what - let Eric petition for citizenship again, don't shoot him down this time, and I'll make sure the A-G nails him. Deal? Of course, this government did try to get ESB back into the country so he could stand trial. The RUMP Senators petitioned against it and shot it down. Game, set, match. Watch the RUMP continue to club together to distract from the fact that their party founder did something dodgy and possibly illegal. As the Mençéi of the Senäts, I feel it is my duty to bring this question to to floor of the Chamber, for discussion. WHEREAS Clause 8 of "The Umpteenth Immigration Reform Act" (35RZ22) states that "At any time before a Grant of Citizenship is conferred, the Sovereign, or members representing at least one-third of the Cosâ by seats, or members representing at least one-third of the Senäts, or any single Justice of the Uppermost Cort may petition the Chancery that the said Grant of Citizenship shall not be issued until such issuance shall be ordered by an act of the Ziu. The Secretary of State shall be required to grant all such petitions, and shall withhold any issuance of a Royal Grant of Citizenship to the prospective immigrant who is the subject of such a petition until such time as an act of the Ziu directing the issuance of such a grant becomes law." THEREFORE I, Mick Preston, as Senator representing the greatest Province in the Kingdom of Talossa -Maritiimi-Maxhestic , hereby move that the Senäts block the immigration application of the former citizen known formally as Eiric S. Börnatfiglheu (and informally as "ESB"). Signed, Capt. Sir Mick Preston Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic; We went over this in private. Would you like me to reveal our private conversations to the public? I believe that in private discussion with the Senator from Fiova, she now understands why I presented this motion. Not to worry. I don't share private communications I have with others to the rest of the world. What I will say is that I explained to you in private in detail of why I did what I did. We had a very informative discussion about my actions. You accepted and agreed to why what I did. Again, I respect the details of our private conversations. Have you decided that you were incorrect concerning the ESB matter? "The RUMP Senators petitioned against it and shot it down. Game, set, match." I shall post - from public record, your comment on my petition: While I will still vote against this motion, I am persuaded that it will cause no great constitutional mischief - if, after his citizenship is blocked, E. Börnatfiglheu is tried before the Uppermost Cort, and that the Ziu does not thereafter seek to impose greater penalty on him than that which the Cort hands down. In other words, that if the Cort does not impose a sentence of deprival of citizenship, the Ziu will authorise Eiric to regain his citizenship. Ahem. You agreed to a public trial of ESB, and - like me - waited for the AG to bring such charges. It has yet to happen. Game. Set. Match.
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