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Post by Colonel Mximo Carbonèl on Jan 27, 2013 23:26:29 GMT -6
This is a fraud. An ID fraud. On internet , facebook, he take a picture of a lady and created a false facebook account.
How can I trust a man like that? This is not just an electoral fraud This is an internet fraud! He lies to us. He fraud us. I don't want to be part of Talossa with a bastard like that...
Sorry but I'M VERY ANGRY ABOUT ALL THIS
Mximo
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Post by Martì Prevuost on Jan 27, 2013 23:26:45 GMT -6
Well, so I suppose the ImmMin gets to answer whether she would entertain such a citizen request so we can try him and punish him! Playing Hool's the Devil's advocate for a moment. Assume Eric is granted citizenship and brought to trial. He might plead guilty. The Cort would move immediately to sentencing. How would that benefit to Talossa or Eric? MAG
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jan 27, 2013 23:26:56 GMT -6
Talossa is not a joke... I ask for citenzenship termination after a fair trial. "Your honour, I demand we give the accused a fair trial, then shoot him dead, then strangle him, then set him free." ;D Hear hear!
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jan 27, 2013 23:28:22 GMT -6
He might plead guilty. The Cort would move immediately to sentencing. How would that benefit to Talossa or Eric? I do hope that the Cort, in line with judicial procedure in other nations, would be prepared to hear victim impact statements and other submissions from defence and prosecution before they consider sentencing. I do not agree that the only possible punishment is crucifixion revocation of citizenship with no appeal.
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Jan 27, 2013 23:29:58 GMT -6
Well maybe someone should petition the court for a trial and see how the court rules on a trial of a former citizen. Let's act on it instead of endlessly debating if we or anyone should do anything.
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Post by Munditenens Tresplet on Jan 27, 2013 23:30:20 GMT -6
Well, so I suppose the ImmMin gets to answer whether she would entertain such a citizen request so we can try him and punish him! Playing Hool's the Devil's advocate for a moment. Assume Eric is granted citizenship and brought to trial. He might plead guilty. The Cort would move immediately to sentencing. How would that benefit to Talossa or Eric? MAG Perhaps the Cort would be kind enough to allow for witnesses to be called during the Sentencing hearing. The victims could have their say, and could get closure. As Miestra says, she could ask the Cort not to drop the "Almighty Banhammer", perhaps opting for a less harsh punishment--one that allows for another chance. Is the only punishment for crimes committed in Talossa the loss of citizenship? EDIT: Miestra covered it already--in keeping with the judicial procedures of other nations, the Cort should be inclined to hear testimony from the victims, as well as from the defense, before handing down a sentence.
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Post by Munditenens Tresplet on Jan 27, 2013 23:31:48 GMT -6
Well maybe someone should petition the court for a trial and see how the court rules on a trial of a former citizen. Let's act on it instead of endlessly debating if we or anyone should do anything. I believe that the proper procedure is a complaint to be filed with the AG, who then would choose whether or not to bring it to trial. I agree, though, that someone should just make the complaint, and see what happens.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jan 27, 2013 23:35:22 GMT -6
A few questions, and spoken without a perceived answer, or a expected answer.
And in a sincere voice, not mocking, etc.
If we were to re-grant Citizenship -
If we held a trial, why would we when the "defendant" has already admitted guilt ?
There is no issue to be debated, and the penalty will be the same as when the person renounced. Should this be changed?
We have already laws in affect that address what needs to be done, to regain citizenship. What should be changed about this?
There is no issue about Acts being valid, that has already been resolved.
Are some of us looking for a forum for "Victim Statements"? If the person was allowed to issue a statement about regret, etc - would that solve the concerns?
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Jan 27, 2013 23:35:29 GMT -6
Is the only punishment for crimes committed in Talossa the loss of citizenship? OrgLaw Article XVI: The Courts Section 10 The Cort shall try persons for all offences under law, such as a person doing something he should not, or not doing something he should. The Cort shall inflict such punishment as the law provides. Section 12 The courts shall have power to enforce penalties against violators, commensurate with the severity of the crime. The Uppermost Cort may in certain extreme circumstances impose the penalty of expulsion from the country, by a unanimous vote. Sentences may only be overturned by Royal Pardon. *** Answer: No. There can be lesser punishments than full revocation of citizenship.
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Post by Martì Prevuost on Jan 27, 2013 23:35:30 GMT -6
Miestrâ - I concur there is a range of punishments available to the Cort should he plead or be found guilty at trial.
Victim impact statements - I wonder where we would draw the line? ImmMin, the individual heralds of the College of Arms, the King, yourself, all members of the Cosa, anyone who had any interaction with the fictional (non)-citizens?
I understand the concern and the desire for justice. I do. I'm not saying it shouldn't be pursued. I wonder who'll defend him if he decides to pursue the course and is successful in being brought to justice? MAG
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Post by Munditenens Tresplet on Jan 27, 2013 23:40:12 GMT -6
Is the only punishment for crimes committed in Talossa the loss of citizenship? Answer: No. There can be lesser punishments than full revocation of citizenship. I meant that as more of a rhetorical question, as we tend to see that revocation of citizenship as being the only punishment, when really, we just haven't ever had any other type of punishment. I'm glad you quoted the law in question and answered it though.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jan 27, 2013 23:41:52 GMT -6
There is no issue to be debated, and the penalty will be the same as when the person renounced. How would you know what penalty the Uppermost Cort will apply? 36RZ10 does not give a mandatory sentence, although it allows for banishment. Anyway, alea jacta est. I just sent this to the Attorney-General:
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Jan 27, 2013 23:42:02 GMT -6
I meant that as more of a rhetorical question, as we tend to see that revocation of citizenship as being the only punishment, when really, we just haven't ever had any other type of punishment. I'm glad you quoted the law in question and answered it though. Tut. Sorry, written text vs tone of voice. I thought you were actually asking.
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Post by Munditenens Tresplet on Jan 27, 2013 23:44:55 GMT -6
I meant that as more of a rhetorical question, as we tend to see that revocation of citizenship as being the only punishment, when really, we just haven't ever had any other type of punishment. I'm glad you quoted the law in question and answered it though. Tut. Sorry, written text vs tone of voice. I thought you were actually asking. I understand. I typically use a lot of emoticons to express my tone of voice, but as of late, I haven't been. I really should get back to doing so, however. ;D I'm not saying it shouldn't be pursued. I wonder who'll defend him if he decides to pursue the course and is successful in being brought to justice? If no one else volunteered to, no one on the Bar wished to, and the Cort couldn't find someone to appoint, I would offer to represent him as a citizen. Everyone deserves a fair trial.
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Post by Colonel Mximo Carbonèl on Jan 27, 2013 23:57:38 GMT -6
Do Eric provide you some ID ? Do you know if this is his real name?
I hope the cort will sentence him out of this country for good...
Mximoe
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