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Post by Owen Edwards on Jan 28, 2008 13:21:39 GMT -6
I suggest Dreu redraft the Bill to either be a clear investigative effort, or a proposal to switch balloting systems - and leave this draft at that.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jan 28, 2008 13:56:46 GMT -6
Should a bill come to the floor concerning a change to a secret ballot I will vote in the affirmative. This is not a complicated issue. While I support fact-finding, I think that what we currently know would incline me strongly against such a bill. I am unaware of any working system of secret ballots that allows oversight for errors at this time.
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Post by Owen Edwards on Jan 28, 2008 14:04:14 GMT -6
Perhaps the Foreign Minister should request an explanation of the Republic system in lieu of a full investigation.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
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Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jan 28, 2008 14:11:12 GMT -6
Perhaps the Foreign Minister should request an explanation of the Republic system in lieu of a full investigation. In the past, they used software written by former SoS Furxheir to administer elections. Now, I believe they use BallotBin. Without weighing in (at this point) on whether a secret ballot would be an improvement or not, why not just commission a study on the feasibility of a secret ballot, and give the commission the freedom to pursue whatever options it can find, from sources expected and unexpected?
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Jan 28, 2008 15:38:00 GMT -6
It's now been edited so that it's purely a fact-finding team that may find their answers wherever they will.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jan 28, 2008 15:55:24 GMT -6
I will strongly support this bill, and urge my colleagues to do the same. It can do no harm, and might possibly benefit us. Personally, I am strongly skeptical of the secret ballot, and will scrutinize any attempts to pass it into law carefully, but it is a fool's task to try to legislate anything without awareness of the facts.
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Post by Owen Edwards on Jan 28, 2008 16:00:19 GMT -6
I would vote for the revised Bill, though a team of one with an overseer might work just as well as a team of three.
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Jan 28, 2008 16:31:38 GMT -6
The idea of three people was so that the Seneschal could put people with different views on the matter so that the report they delivered would be more balanced.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jan 28, 2008 16:33:32 GMT -6
Now this wording (of the modified proposal) I don't have a problem with.
And I think 3 is a workable number- we get 3 views of the same method(s).
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EM Vürinalt
Citizen since 12-20-2007
Parletz, am?c, en entrez
Posts: 979
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Post by EM Vürinalt on Jan 28, 2008 17:54:40 GMT -6
I will strongly support this bill, and urge my colleagues to do the same. It can do no harm, and might possibly benefit us. Personally, I am strongly skeptical of the secret ballot, and will scrutinize any attempts to pass it into law carefully, but it is a fool's task to try to legislate anything without awareness of the facts. "What he said."
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
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Post by Hooligan on Jan 28, 2008 19:05:18 GMT -6
I will vote in the negative and will argue vehemently for this position. I have given many reasons for this the last time this was brought up.
Hooligan
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jan 28, 2008 22:12:53 GMT -6
I remind the Seneschal that this is nothing more than fact-finding. Currently, I too stand behind the open ballot for many of those excellent reasons with which you persuaded us last time. But I honestly can see very little harm in this three-person investigatory team that you will appoint. More information cannot possibly hurt us.
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Brad Holmes
Cunstaval to Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Atatürkey, and flying by the seat of my RUMP
Posts: 1,014
Talossan Since: 3-16-2006
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Post by Brad Holmes on Jan 29, 2008 6:37:52 GMT -6
One thing I learned in college (as part of the NROTC education) was that you should not submit any evaluation, survey, critique, etc. unless you were willing to put your name behind it. This prevented people from just writing "This class sucked!" "That guest speaker was awful!" and encouraged them to give honest and constructive criticism, and also made the point that you are responsible for your opinions and should take some pride in having an opinion.
While voting is not a class evaluation, each Clark is a survey and critique of the government. We've had a couple of negative votes in the VOC in the last 6 months, and those MCs have given reasons. A secret ballot would essentially destroy the VOC. Only after the Clark ended would the government know if they screwed the pooch, and would have no idea which MCs had no confidence, nor how to restore that confidence. How is that any sort of constructive feedback?
Also, take a look at the most recent election and remember the mini-campaign to get Sir Cresti to vote and avoid his third strike. Secret ballots would prevent friends from seeing IF their friends had even voting and prevent them from harassing them to vote and avoid strikes. Even if you don't know the strikers or stragglers, campaigning for parties becomes difficult, as you don't know who to focus on.
Finally, it is chicken poop to not put your name on your vote, each and every time. Who are you to run and participate in a government when you are ashamed for others to see how you vote? Might as well just vote "Present" and spare your colleagues your cowardice.
I will vote NO on this bill. Even fact finding is unnecessary and a waste of time.
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Post by Owen Edwards on Jan 29, 2008 7:45:54 GMT -6
Note to every nation with a meaningful democracy: secret balloting is for pussies, get over it!
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
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Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jan 29, 2008 8:21:18 GMT -6
Oh, I know there is no way I'll ever support a secret ballot for the Cosa.
If you don't have enough fortitude to stand up in the Ziu and have your vote recorded on National issues, you have no right to be sitting in the Ziu in the first place.
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