Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jan 27, 2008 16:19:31 GMT -6
Do we need to specify? Let them find their answers where they will. Excellent point. Let us make sure that their sources are credited though. Shouldn't this be kept secret , also? The whole point is to keep everything hidden, right? We shouldn't even disclose who is on this committee, how many people are on it, or what their findings are. Rightfully, the members of the committee should be kept secret , known only to the Seneshal. Then when these secret members have come up with their secret conclusions, they should secretly tell the Seneschal, who can then whisper into the ear of the Secretary of State their secret results. The SoS can then tell everyone what has been decided. The last thing we want is any level of transparency, right?
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Jan 27, 2008 16:22:53 GMT -6
I think the honourable SoS is being ridiculous. Is a secret ballot really that horrible?
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jan 27, 2008 17:49:25 GMT -6
Is the open ballot really that horrible?
Why are we changing something that works fine, that has always worked fine, and doesn't seem to be in eminent need of correction?
In the South of Talossa, we have this local phrase-
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
I still have a lingering problem with a statement you made earlier:
"And yes, it's true, this bill may have other motives."
What other motives might this bill have?
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Jan 27, 2008 17:54:28 GMT -6
Surprisingly enough, s:reu Preston, things that work fine do not equal things that are good. I could say that Stalin's ability to keep a stranglehold on the USSR "worked fine" but was it good?
I for one believe that our public ballot "works fine" but I have the concern that it is not good.
As for the other motives this bill has, the original idea of fact-finding in the RoT was a way to connect the two once again, that was the other motive. However, now that that bit is gone, there are no other motives.
EDIT: spelling
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Post by Owen Edwards on Jan 27, 2008 18:23:54 GMT -6
MC Preston, I think you know investigating the methods of secret balloting to see if they are suitable is not the same as refusing to tell anyone anything, ever.
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EM Vürinalt
Citizen since 12-20-2007
Parletz, am?c, en entrez
Posts: 979
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Post by EM Vürinalt on Jan 27, 2008 18:56:39 GMT -6
MC Preston, I think you know investigating the methods of secret balloting to see if they are suitable is not the same as refusing to tell anyone anything, ever. Agreed. Not telling anything at all would be communism. I, currently, perfer the open ballot system. We have no reason why they should be closed ballots at this time. Right now, Talossa is barely at 100 citizens, many of which are inactive. We need to have laws that affect the "now" rather than the "then." Making laws that affect hypothetical circumstances will not help until those said circumstances are upon us.
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Post by Owen Edwards on Jan 27, 2008 19:36:22 GMT -6
I think to be convinced a closed ballot is best, I'd want to know VERY CLEARLY how the Republic monitors the fair dealing involved.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2008 11:55:41 GMT -6
Another pointless bill. The current system is fine. Frankly, I would expect someone who fears totalitarianism so much to favour open ballots, it prevents the abuse of elections. With secret ballots, one might see a sudden rise in the activity of inactive citizens and voting for one specific ballot, open ballots prevent that. Also, I firmly hold true that if there is any political retaliation for how people have voted, many members of the Talossan parties would have major issues with that person and/or party leader.
This system isn't broken, it is good, it keeps everyone honest.
I am not making any accusations to the LRT, but is there something that is being feared by Dreu that he feels political retaliation is bound to happen with how HE votes, being a member of the LRT and all? the LRT, with all my disagreements with their various members, seems to be an honest party and is not lacking integrity, so what is the real point of this.
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Post by Owen Edwards on Jan 28, 2008 12:26:02 GMT -6
I think if my honourable friend presented a more focussed Bill legislating for a special investigative panel to examine secret balloting techniques in the Republic, with no further clauses or motivation, it might meet with more support.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jan 28, 2008 12:44:14 GMT -6
Actually, Owen-
If it didn't focus on the Republic, but methods and types of "secret" voting in general, if might receive a better response.
I'll be honest-
My first read of this was:
"Let's have secret ballots because the Republic does!"
With Dreu's former posts, and ideas- my inclination was to believe that it wasn't so much Dreu's fear of reprisal from others in the Kingdom, but the first step in his house of cards to merge the Kingdom and the Republic.
I may be wrong, of course.
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Post by Owen Edwards on Jan 28, 2008 12:55:34 GMT -6
Whilst I think reunion is an admirable aim, I do not believe this is part of any plan to merge institutions. I think, as has been admitted openly, Dreu hopes the Bill, and the concomittant diplomacy involve, will help foster relations.
And I think the Republic's system is considered apposite because it is a nation which conducts its elections in a similar way to ours in respects that secret balloting in the UK or the US do not match.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jan 28, 2008 13:10:15 GMT -6
Well, my last comment about that Owen will be a quote from Dreu:
"As for the other motives this bill has, the original idea of fact-finding in the RoT was a way to connect the two once again, that was the other motive."
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Post by Owen Edwards on Jan 28, 2008 13:12:26 GMT -6
It's not unknown for any of us to misphrase things - I personally know Dreu doesn't see a replicate electoral system as the cornerstone of reunion.
That would all need to be made very clear in a redraft of this concept.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2008 13:17:27 GMT -6
Owen,
I do not believe Mick was saying that this would be a cornerstone to reunion, but it was one card in a hand of cards Dreu was playing that would lead to reunion. There is a difference between the two. Dreu has made his plans quite well known. This is not a new revelation.
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Post by Breneir Itravilatx on Jan 28, 2008 13:19:26 GMT -6
Should a bill come to the floor concerning a change to a secret ballot I will vote in the affirmative. This is not a complicated issue.
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