Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jan 26, 2013 23:16:09 GMT -6
People are asking to be able to be Talossan without having to be political, and that is a very different thing. Really, that seems like a bit of a straw man itself. Because I'm pretty sure no one has proposed requiring all citizens to participate in political discussions. Certainly one can be Talossan without being political, but given how central politics has been to Talossa since the beginning, I rather think that if some people have decided not to join Talossa because they simply can't bear to even see political threads in the main forum of Witt, Talossa might not be the best place for them. I think quite a few more people have come to Talossa because they like politics than because they don't like politics. I believe that there is a time and place for everything. I believe that anything Political should be under the "Government" sub-boards. Because that is what Government is all about. I don't think it should propagate all over Witt. Just like threads about "Secret Santa's " , "Fantasy Sports" , "Jokes" threads have their place, so do "Politics". What about the main forum? What would go there, if political discussions are shifted out? Because honestly, it seems like it would be pretty dead in here aside from government announcements and citizenship petitions.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jan 26, 2013 23:29:43 GMT -6
I suggest you scroll down the "Wittenberg" board as it stands at the very moment.
I think it would still be very vibrant - and without the "Politics", might be even more active. Citizens would not be worried if their threads were hijacked by political hacks, and full and complete discussions could be made.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jan 27, 2013 0:30:50 GMT -6
I disagree that it was a straw-man, Cresti. The idea is not that they can't bear to see political threads, but rather that the political threads drown out general discussion on the main board of Witt, and their belligerent tone makes Talossa seem like a harsh and combatative community.
The other thing is a good point, though... on the front page of Witt right now, I count eight government announcements, seven political threads, and perhaps five general topics (assuming you consider Mick's thread requesting a politics board to be a general topic!). Page two is almost identical, and the proportions seem about right to me. Perhaps we might do better to merge the Chat Room's hidden general-purpose stuff with Witt's main board, and rename the Chat Room into something more fitting as a private discussion group?
But once again, all of these problems are much better solved by spinning off official government boards, and making Witt a general discussion board. I hope we can tackle that as the next major online properties move, now that the wiki is running smoothly and once we get talossa.com up.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jan 27, 2013 0:32:57 GMT -6
Follow-up: After checking out The Chat Room's front page, I see a dozen threads (minus the proliferating short poll threads) that don't seem at all sensitive, and might easily have gone on Witt's main board here and made the friendly and fun community aspects of Talossa more prominent. Instead, they're hidden.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jan 27, 2013 2:24:04 GMT -6
I repeat one more time: the issue is not politics, it's the issue of the level of discourse of our politics. A secondary issue is the idea of some Talossans that "politeness" means acid-tongue passive-aggressive "oblique" abuse is okay, but forthright and blunt language isn't - in other words, we haven't got a common standards of what "rude" means.
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Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on Jan 27, 2013 3:54:54 GMT -6
Even Talossans who enjoy politics -- and most of us do -- want to be able to take a break sometimes. I would never have renounced my citizenship in 2001 if that had been possible. Look, as long as we have elections and a Ziu that legislates, citizens will never escape politics, at least no the effects of it.
What about this model?
1. Party-political debates take place in the Ziu. They don't have to be specifically about legislation, they can be all sorts of party politics - MCs and Senators addressing other MCs and Senators.
2. Instead of a Coffee house, when a citizen wants to initiate a general political debate directed at the general population, or wants to make a political thread out of another thread, s/he does indeed post in the main Witt, but labels the thread [POLITICS] or something like that. The threads will still be there in everybody's face, nobody can try to hide away politics, but the citizens who for some reason prefer to just listen to the election debates and vote, can ignore them.
I really do agree that Talossans who are here for other stuff than politics is a good thing. Politics will always be a vital part of Talossa, but it would mean a step forward if it didn't have to be that to all citizens.
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Post by D. N. Vercáriâ on Jan 27, 2013 4:51:47 GMT -6
Like it has been said by more than just one person now, let's simply get used to having more "fun" debates on our general forum. Thus the strange (and wrong) impression of Talossa being something like a political fight club with a lot of boring bureaucracy will be watered down, kind of naturally.
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Post by M.T. Patritz da Biondeu on Jan 27, 2013 11:52:24 GMT -6
Good morning everyone!!! You're all trolling my thread at this point.
I again beg for one of two things: 1- a politics board 2- a non politics board
This will go unnoticed because it makes too much sense and isn't insulting, derogatory, or feisty.
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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Jan 27, 2013 11:55:12 GMT -6
It's not quite as clear-cut as that S:reu da Biondeu; follow the arguments of those arguing against your suggestions, and there are some pretty solid arguments there as well. Don't dismiss what you don't agree with - I guess that's a rule we should all try to live by in Talossa.
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Post by M.T. Patritz da Biondeu on Jan 27, 2013 12:05:12 GMT -6
That's why I positoned one non politics board... it seems as if people want all boards here littered with political uproar.
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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Jan 27, 2013 12:07:58 GMT -6
You've still got to take into account what constitutes a political discussion. Are we talking politics now because we disagree? If so, there's no point to segregating politics and non-politics discussions. What would be better is to have a place where ANY heated argument can be thrown of it starts looking personalised and messy, IMO.
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Post by M.T. Patritz da Biondeu on Jan 27, 2013 12:12:33 GMT -6
This thread is political. You and I are arguing. I don't see how a board dedicating to discussing talossan non political activities is so difficult to make happen.
And it is that clean cut. I'm not asking for legislation. I'm not asking for heavier moderation. I'm not asking for talossa to stop politics as people have suggested. I'm asking for a board to discuss the other things of talossa.
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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Jan 27, 2013 12:16:44 GMT -6
See, I wouldn't consider this a political discussion as such, and even though we disagree, I would still say that since we're remaining civil, there would be no point to hide away this discussion. Is there a point to having a completely separate place for non-political discussion when people can simply avoid a thread in which politics is discussed? I don't see politics as being the problem here anyway, rather it is the civility through which we conduct our discussions, in my opinion.
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Post by M.T. Patritz da Biondeu on Jan 27, 2013 12:27:04 GMT -6
The problem is... is that 95% of posts end up taking sour turns. I feel I could up a thread about cute kittens and there would be someone trolling.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jan 27, 2013 13:01:11 GMT -6
At this point, my preferred solution is simply the relabeling of The Chat Room, and corresponding relocation of general fun threads to the main board. The Chat Room - now "Private Discussions" - will be emphasized as not the place for general discussion, but only for conversations that need to be private to Talossans. This will help put our fun face forward.
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