Petition for a Happier Kingdom

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

Jan 26, 2013 21:29:10 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

But there is a vested interest by some in shutting down political debate altogether. It's not a coincidence that the guy who said "political debates turn citizens off" is also the guy who said "the mere suggestion of republicanism turns people off". This is why I want anyone who actually does want the end of politics - an absolute monarchy, or a Privy Council elected on a purely administrative basis - to front up and say so. Because politics "within limits" isn't politics, it's theatre and playacting.

Can you point out the exact quote that says there is a "vested interest" in "Shutting down political debate altogether"? Please provide references?

I don't see anyone wanting anything that you have claimed.

What is the name of the person that wants what you say that? Who wants the "Absolute Monarchy" ? Who wants the "Privy Council elected on a purely administrative basis".

Please, name the culprit.

[Sarac'h Txilvertescu]

Jan 26, 2013 21:21:06 GMT -6 Capt. Sir Mick Preston said:

Why do you assume there is one?

Why did you think I was making my comment to you, directly?

There is always a vested interest. That's the nature of things.

Don't try to gaslight me. Don't sell, cause I'm not buying. You can throw up your hands in mock incredulity "I wasn't talking about you" but the attempt is shallow and doesn't even come close to the plausible part of plausible deniability.

Mick, grasping complex argument is a major sign of mental maturity. Simply going "point to the exact words" isn't a counterargument.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Stop it, Mick. Stop deliberately misinterpreting everything I say. You're trolling me to try to make me upset and lash out. It's very uncouth.

You know perfectly well that I am talking about the original post in this thread which called for "less politics" and "less republicanism". And I am asking you - and all others - if you think that politics are a necessary part of Talossa - if so, why, and if not, why not.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Sariah, I don't think it's "gaslighting" (someone trying to make us think we're crazy); it's "dogwhistling" (calling for something in coded language and then denying you ever said it because you didn't use the precise words").

[Sarac'h Txilvertescu]

Jan 26, 2013 21:39:54 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

Sariah, I don't think it's "gaslighting" (someone trying to make us think we're crazy); it's "dogwhistling" (calling for something in coded language and then denying you ever said it because you didn't use the precise words").

Six one way and a half-dozen the other. It is convenient to paint your political opponents as mental defectives, after all.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

As I say, I don't think they're doing that. I think they're painting their political opponents as mean, bitchy, and not properly Talossan. Not just in this thread - in the wider context of trying to delegitimize Republicanism via the College of Arms and oaths of citizenship, as well as personalised attacks on the (female!) members of the ZRT.

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

Jan 26, 2013 21:38:07 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

Stop it, Mick. Stop deliberately misinterpreting everything I say. You're trolling me to try to make me upset and lash out. It's very uncouth.

You know perfectly well that I am talking about the original post in this thread which called for "less politics" and "less republicanism". And I am asking you - and all others - if you think that politics are a necessary part of Talossa - if so, why, and if not, why not.

Please show me that quote - not your interpretation of a quote.

The original post reads as such:

"
WHEREAS the forums of Talossa are an important part of Talossan life, and

WHEREAS some citizens don't want to see the heat of political debates and discussion, and

WHEREAS these discussion sometimes spill over in to all areas of the forums, and

THEREFORE, I submit this petition to the owner and moderators of the forums know as 'Wittenberg' to please create a new board to be called 'Political Debates' (or something similar) in the grouping of Governmental. This will allow the hardcore politics to play out without everyone having to see them, unless they so choose. In turn, this will hopefully boost the morale of the Kingdom and bring in new citizens."

I don't see the words "less politics" nor "less republicanism".

I am not "deliberately misinterpreting" your comments. I am asking you for when, where, and who said these things.

I'm also not going to change the subject.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Picking on an obvious error in an ingenuous attempt to make your opponent look stupid without actually addressing the issue is a low tactic. I forgot what thread I was in, sorry about that. Here is the post I meant - as you knew full well.

[Sondra Lomaira]

Right here:

Jan 22, 2013 12:15:41 GMT -6 M.T. Patritz da Biondeu said:

6.) I'm going to say it... the Republicans - Most people join Talossa because it's the opportunity to get involved in a living monarchy (club). That is how it is presented to general public. So, I joined a club on monarchy and now that I am a member I see that there are people SCREAMING out and calling for a republic? Meh, time to move on. People are not going to have the drive to fight to keep it a monarchy if they are a new citizen.

7.) Constant Fighting - I understand in politics almost everything is playing ground. I've been involved with real government activities and I must say... Talossan politicians are far meaner than any real life one (which probably plays in to #5). STOP IT! If you want to fight, e-mail back and forth, or take it off the 'Wittenberg' (which is the main communication of the Kingdom.) It only takes a few minutes to set up your own proboard.

Pigeonholing politics is translates as: Less Politics.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Thanks, Sondra. I see it as a sign of bad faith that everyone agrees that a thread that's gotten out of hand with shouting, personal abuse etc. should be moved off the main boards; but others keep trying to bring it back to political discussion in particular.

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

I asked, you all answered.

Thank you.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Now it's my turn, Mick. Is political debate an important part of Talossa? If so, what limits should be set on it, if any? If not, why have politics at all?

[Sondra Lomaira]

Sorry for butting in, but I was finding it difficult to believe that Mick hadn't read that letter.

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

Jan 26, 2013 21:55:13 GMT -6 Sondra Lomaira said:

Sorry for butting in, but I was finding it difficult to believe that Mick hadn't read that letter.

I had read that letter - but I was concentrating on this particular thread.

Mea Culpa.

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

Jan 26, 2013 21:53:34 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

Now it's my turn, Mick. Is political debate an important part of Talossa? If so, what limits should be set on it, if any? If not, why have politics at all?

Can you ask that question again, without bias?