Gotta undo the oath.

[Andreas Lorentz]

I'm going to have to rescind my signature on the oath I took to regain my citizenship. Does that mean that I'm not a citizen anymore?

My apologies to you all, but I thought of the oath as a make-believe formality, like y'all's coats of arms. Then I got to thinking about it this evening and realized that I had actually lied, and felt bad about it.

No, I don't swear fealty to any King. I'm sure that the current King is a really great fella and all (I'm dimly aware that he managed to save the Kingdom, with no small amount of effort and chutzpah), but I have no idea of who he is, or why he is important. He has little to say, I've noticed. That's a characteristic to be admired in any King, to be sure, but I'm wary of the distance between the monarch and his subjects.

I do swear fidelity to Talossa itself, and all its citizens, and promise to do my best to uphold its ideals. If that's not good enough, then please let me know.

[Flip Molinar]

I also took back that part of my Oath three or so years ago.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Firstly - very pleasing, Andy, to see a Peculiarist realise that things we do in Talossa are, in fact, occasionally serious business.

In 1927, the republican Fianna Fáil party had to take an oath of allegiance to the British monarch (whose forces many of them had been shooting at 10 years earlier) to enter the Irish Free State parliament, where they became the Government after the next election and set to abolishing that oath. That's how I consider my oath of allegiance to King John. He is, for now, the Head of the Talossan State and therefore my commander-in-chief within Talossa. But that allegiance is to the Head of State of Talossa. Certainly not the institution of the Talossan monarchy, which it is my life's worth in Talossa to bring to a fitting end.

I hope the Peculiarist presence in the next Cosâ will join with the ZRT in replacing the "oath to the monarchy" with an "oath to protect and defend Talossa and her Constitutional forms of government" (which, for now, include the monarchy).

[Iustì Carlüs Canun]

Jan 10, 2013 0:00:10 GMT -6 Andreas Lorentz said:

I'm going to have to rescind my signature on the oath I took to regain my citizenship. Does that mean that I'm not a citizen anymore?

If you rescind the entire oath, then yes. If you're going Damâ Miestrâ's route, then no.

Jan 10, 2013 0:18:31 GMT -6 Flip Molinar said:

I also took back that part of my Oath three or so years ago.

Then perhaps you ought not display your coat of arms.

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

So you took an oath to become a citizen, decided you didn't actually mean it, and now you want to rescind it? Just so I understand correctly.

[D. N. Vercáriâ]

I already swore an oath along the lines of Miestrâ's proposal or even more "lean" (an oath to Talossa and her people, which, btw., is on the Peculiarists' political wishlist too), and this oath was accepted without any further debate.

You may also notice that I did not apply for arms. Who needs arms if he's been wearing the sash of the Republic, thanks to the vote of a majority.

[ián txáglh]

i swore my oath in the original wording and even i am not fully happy with it, i am not going to retract it. although, i join the peculiarists in their effort to change the text into something less feudal.

[Andreas Lorentz]

Jan 10, 2013 1:41:26 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

Firstly - very pleasing, Andy, to see a Peculiarist realise that things we do in Talossa are, in fact, occasionally serious business.

In 1927, the republican Fianna Fáil party had to take an oath of allegiance to the British monarch (whose forces many of them had been shooting at 10 years earlier) to enter the Irish Free State parliament, where they became the Government after the next election and set to abolishing that oath. That's how I consider my oath of allegiance to King John. He is, for now, the Head of the Talossan State and therefore my commander-in-chief within Talossa. But that allegiance is to the Head of State of Talossa. Certainly not the institution of the Talossan monarchy, which it is my life's worth in Talossa to bring to a fitting end.

I hope the Peculiarist presence in the next Cosâ will join with the ZRT in replacing the "oath to the monarchy" with an "oath to protect and defend Talossa and her Constitutional forms of government" (which, for now, include the monarchy).

I thank you for the historical insight; I'm sure that such things have happened frequently in various places through the ages. I'm sympathetic to the travails of the Irish (and the Scots and Welsh, for that matter) and have been meaning to read some history of Britain post 1066-- I'm currently fixated on what happened during the Anglo-Saxon period, and I have no idea why this is so, though part of my fascination is rooted in my interest in the history of the language in which I write this post. I wish you lived next door so that we could discuss linguistics and history and their intertwining over some good coffee and maybe a pastry.

This isn't about Peculiarism or the ZRT or any local politics, it's about my stomach-ache waking me up from sleep and realizing that I felt bad physically because I'd done something I didn't feel entirely good about. An oath is a more serious matter than I'd considered it to be at the time I took it. At the time, I thought, "oh, so what, it's just a meaningless formality," but it's been festering in the back of my mind ever since.

As I've said, I have no problem with the current King, but swearing allegiance to the monarchy itself is something I shouldn't have done. I regret it. I hope we can all work something out, because I don't want to leave.

[Andreas Lorentz]

Jan 10, 2013 3:05:04 GMT -6 Sir Alexandreu Davinescu said:

So you took an oath to become a citizen, decided you didn't actually mean it, and now you want to rescind it? Just so I understand correctly.

Yep. Any questions?

[Andreas Lorentz]

Jan 10, 2013 2:04:00 GMT -6 Iustì Carlüs Canun said:

Jan 10, 2013 0:00:10 GMT -6 Andreas Lorentz said:

I'm going to have to rescind my signature on the oath I took to regain my citizenship. Does that mean that I'm not a citizen anymore?

If you rescind the entire oath, then yes. If you're going Damâ Miestrâ's route, then no.

Jan 10, 2013 0:18:31 GMT -6 Flip Molinar said:

I also took back that part of my Oath three or so years ago.

Then perhaps you ought not display your coat of arms.

Is there a percentage of the oath that I have to abide by? I'm thinking of it as a whole. An Eigen-state, if you will. I'm willing to take a new oath, as long as it doesn't require blind obedience to anything.

And why is this up to you?

[Andreas Lorentz]

Jan 10, 2013 4:32:04 GMT -6 D. N. Vercáriâ said:

I already swore an oath along the lines of Miestrâ's proposal or even more "lean" (an oath to Talossa and her people, which, btw., is on the Peculiarists' political wishlist too), and this oath was accepted without any further debate.

You may also notice that I did not apply for arms. Who needs arms if he's been wearing the sash of the Republic, thanks to the vote of a majority.

I don't really get the "arms" thing, but I agree that the sash means more for exactly the reason you give: you were awarded it by vote. (I regret having missed that, but please accept my congratulations after the fact.)

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

Jan 10, 2013 8:24:34 GMT -6 Andreas Lorentz said:

And why is this up to you?

That's because he's the current Secretary of State, and he's in charge of the Oath taking, and Renouncing of Citizenship procedures.

[Andreas Lorentz]

Jan 10, 2013 8:55:35 GMT -6 Capt. Sir Mick Preston said:

Jan 10, 2013 8:24:34 GMT -6 Andreas Lorentz said:

And why is this up to you?

That's because he's the current Secretary of State, and he's in charge of the Oath taking, and Renouncing of Citizenship procedures.

Ah, thanks for cluing me in. So he gets to decide my fate, then? Single-handedly? I can't wait to see what official position is. I'm not renouncing, just to make that clear. I just want to take an oath that fits me better. If that's grounds for expulsion, then maybe I should be expelled for having such bad thoughts.

I apologize for not knowing the current political line-up; I should have been paying closer attention. Things have been shifting around here, and my observation is imperfect.

[Xandreta da Luguvaliüm]

Andy rocks. That simple. Freedom of conscience and being man enough to admit difficulty.

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

Jan 10, 2013 9:11:05 GMT -6 Andreas Lorentz said:

I just want to take an oath that fits me better.

Then I would suggest you draft a Bill and present it to the Ziu to amend 37RZ3 - The O Promise Me Act and 35RZ22 - The Umpteenth Immigration Reform Act .

When that Act passes and signed into law, then you can swear to an Oath that fits you better.