MC's for the 38th Cosâ.

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

Well, that too.

[Hooligan]

...or if, God forbid, the MC dies, or renounces his Talossan citizenship.

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

I think they get the idea, Oh Great Seneschal -type person.

[Breneir Itravilatx]

Once again my dear humble SoS,

I refer you to our previous conversation where you stated that there is no law which says that these seats are allocated in the fashion which you and the Seneschal just put forth. Tradition is not law.

Seats should not be the property of a person.

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

And again, I must remind you that without Law, Tradition is the Rule.

There is nothing in the OrgLaw, nor the Statutory Law, that requires the MC to relinquish their Seats in the Cosa if they change Parties.

There are specific reasons why a Seat in the Cosa returns to a Party.

The individual changing his mind about things is not one of those reasons. Deciding to stand with a different group of people does not remove a person from the Cosa.

Unless the person is removed from the Cosa, the apportioned seats granted to them do not revert to the granting party.

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

I should mention that I feel this is improper, but I am in the minority on the matter.

[Hooligan]

Article VIII, Section 4 of the Organic Law is the only law that says anything about an MC vacating his seats, and it says: An MC vacates his seats if he fails to vote on two consecutive Clarks, or if he resigns from office or dies.

An MC who chooses to align himself with a different political party, therefore, does not, simply by doing so, vacate his seats. It is up to the conscience of any MC leaving a party to decide whether to resign the seats that had been awarded to him by the party to which he no longer clings, or to keep them if he believes that he, and not the party he has left, best represents the interests of the voters who initially put the seat into the hands of that party for assignment.

Talossa has seen party switches by MC's happen before, and as I say, it is up to the MC himself what happens to the seats. An (admittedly not exact) analog in our neighbouring foreign country (though it be a non-parliamentary nation) would be an announced party switch by a sitting U.S. Senator or Representative -- something that is not unheard of, and something that does not require the congressperson to resign his or her seat.

Hooligan

[Owen Edwards]

Over here, crossing party lines does happen at least once a year (say); one holds one's seat until the next general election. What will often happen then, of course, is that you may struggle to retain the seat, especially in safe constituencies for the party one has left.

Whether or not one chooses to give up the seats for other reasons, or in a particular fashion and timescale, is a different question. It certainly does not seem inappropriate to do so, or at least offer to do so.

[Breneir Itravilatx]

My qualm with this is that when seats are allocated they go to parties not to individuals. Voters do not vote for individuals for the Cosa they vote for a party. In both instances, the seats originate from the party and then are allocated by the party to its members. If said member leaves it seems reasonable that the seats should stay within the party for whom voters supported.

This is not an unreasonable conclusion.

[Owen Edwards]

That's the sticking point, definitely - I think it'd be a lot more clearcut with Senators, but we're working on the basis of national party list system of PR, so people just tick their party choice.

However, looking at a system like Israel's, say, which utilizes that system - a member of the Knesset would not necessarily be expected to surrender their seat if they crossed party lines.

It's a murky area.

[Breneir Itravilatx]

This is indeed a murky area where reliance on tradition can lead to undemocratic trends.

[Owen Edwards]

I think we'd have to look at issues of precedence elsewhere and consider the ramifications of the current practise on democracy here, without being too emotive about what is certainly an emotive subject for some.

[Flip Molinar]

I relinquish my 5 seats I was given by the LRT back to the LRT for reassignment. Keeping them might be tradition but it does seem undemocratic to keep them. To me, doing so equates to theft, and I am not a thief.

[Breneir Itravilatx]

Thank you Flip for setting a brand new precedent.

[Flip Molinar]

You are most welcome.