What If.... ?

[Dréu Gavárþic'h]

I have recently receive the names of those who contacted S:reu Vürinalt before he was a citizen and will now read them in no particular order:

Xhorxh Asmoûr
Brenéir Tzaracompradâ

There is also a possible RUMPer who was involved in this, but until futher notice (being innocent until proven guilty) his name will not be published here.

I shall now cease discussion in this thread.

[Hooligan]

I have spoken to Dreu and he and the new citizen can produce no evidence of any RUMPer involved in stumping for or against any political party to any pre-citizenship prospective.

For the RUMP, this matter is closed, and I remain confident that no RUMP member would talk Talossan politics to a non-Talossan hoping to gain citizenship.

Hooligan

[Vit Caçeir]

Instead of making accusations of "dirty politics", perhaps a more.... I dunno, "useful" solution would be to actually work on doing something about it? I myself am guilty of this practice, and although it was an honest mistake, I have begun reading extensively about the political history of Talossa, the "Ar Pats" diction, and the archives so graciously released by S:reu Ventrutx, to learn the political customs of Talossa to prevent such a mistake from reoccurring. How many other people do you think also did this as an honest mistake? It is certainly a possibility, in my opinion.

There currently is a bill in the Hopper, known as the "Anti-Broosking Act", I believe, concerning this problem in contemporary Talossan politics. Although it may not be perfected yet, it's a place where action is being debated, and in my opinion, far more productive than the squabbles going on here.

I recommend to all Talossans in this thread that, instead of accusing each individual party/citizen of malpractice, we set past failures or mistakes behind us, and work towards actually finding a solution. If everyone is honestly trying to prevent this, there should be no objections to setting aside partisan issues for the moment.

[Hooligan]

The nation is made aware that I have called for a Conference of Party Leaders. This call has been answered in the affirmative by the leaders of the LRT and the CCCP. The CRO and DPD/PDP leadership will be contacted and invited to this Conference. It is my plan that this become a permanent fixture of Talossan politics, and the party leaders will issue joint statements on issues on which all parties have agreed.

This whole thing has blown up way too big, and I ask the nation to allow the party leaders to meet and speak as one, and all will be well. It's "let it blow over" time, people.

The main reason for this new group, however, is so that the two of us (myself and XPB) who have been through this before can let the other three party leaders know what is about to happen, and what all is expected of each of us after an election is over. We are all five about to get very busy very fast, and XPB and I can pass on our knowledge to the other three party leaders.

Hooligan

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

alexandreu said:

Hello? Hello? Is this thing on? I'm sorry for saying that I wanted to look into this more...I'm also sorry for saying that I wasn't accusing anyone...wow...do you even like read things before you criticize me?

"But...now that you say it, you and your party publically condemn this activity, and yet, it appears that you do it!? Could this me the first strand in a web of corruption? You told me very frankly that as a TA I was not allowed to spread my political party, and I honored my promise to you. But did you tell me this only because I was not part of the RUMP? I wonder..."

alexandreu said:

I have recently receive the names of those who contacted S:reu Vürinalt before he was a citizen and will now read them in no particular order:

Xhorxh Asmoûr
Brenéir Tzaracompradâ

There is also a possible RUMPer who was involved in this, but until futher notice (being innocent until proven guilty) his name will not be published here.

I shall now cease discussion in this thread.

I am sure you are composing your apology to the RUMP now. Or will you just leave in that same one until the next election? Something tells me you will need it at some point, anyway.


EDIT: Wow, fast-moving thread. I am happy with my party leader's statements on the matter, and pleased to see initiative and leadership being shown on these matters by the RUMP.

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

Éovart Caçeir:

I agree with your comments spoken earlier in this thread.

Thank you.

[Deleted]

It seems this thread has no reason to continue. I have checked the MinImm email, and I will post a screen shot if needed, which has no evidence of neither the CCCP nor the RUMP engaging in such activity. Most of us use googlechat, all chats are logged, if you have evidence, please fwd it to [e-mail] and I will closely examine this.

Until this has occurred, any party named in Dreu's list is merely hearsay, neither the RUMP (as it was not mentioned) nor the CCCP (as no evidence of their claim has been produced) are, at this very moment, guilty of what the LRT claims they are. As my early post states, the LRT said they did not wish to engage in dirty politics and mud throwing, yet this is what they seem to be engaging in. The LRT is very well guilty of recruiting members (and Dreu himself confirmed this to me) which I let slide under the premise they would no do it again, however. It seems they have yet to cease. If the LRT wishes to produce evidence for any person/party engaging in this example of disrespect for both Ministry of Immigration Policy and Talossan tradition, it is time to back it up. (Simply put, I am calling what you say out). Until such time has passed, quit naming others to try and project your own faults and misdoings.

That is all I will say on this topic. If Dreu or any other member of the LRT wishes to continue with this conversation, provide evidence. If you cannot, it is time you stopped spreading rumours and tried to win the election on what your party stands for (it is also time to stop recruiting new members or sponsoring them so there is some level of loyalty to whomever sponsors them... many Talossans have jobs, we cannot afford to be on the Witt 24/7).

Also, starting this Wednesday, a new policy will be enacted for the TA program. A new email is being set up. All TAs will now be required to forward any and all email and or communications to the Minister of Immigration. Failure to do so will result in a persons removal from he program(the cc is not that hard to use).

Good night and may the gods bless!

~Ministry of Immigration~

[Dréu Gavárþic'h]

vitooliver said:

It seems this thread has no reason to continue. I have checked the MinImm email, and I will post a screen shot if needed, which has no evidence of neither the CCCP nor the RUMP engaging in such activity. Most of us use googlechat, all chats are logged, if you have evidence, please fwd it to [e-mail] and I will closely examine this.

Until this has occurred, any party named in Dreu's list is merely hearsay, neither the RUMP (as it was not mentioned) nor the CCCP (as no evidence of their claim has been produced) are, at this very moment, guilty of what the LRT claims they are. As my early post states, the LRT said they did not wish to engage in dirty politics and mud throwing, yet this is what they seem to be engaging in. The LRT is very well guilty of recruiting members (and Dreu himself confirmed this to me) which I let slide under the premise they would no do it again, however. It seems they have yet to cease. If the LRT wishes to produce evidence for any person/party engaging in this example of disrespect for both Ministry of Immigration Policy and Talossan tradition, it is time to back it up. (Simply put, I am calling what you say out). Until such time has passed, quit naming others to try and project your own faults and misdoings.

That is all I will say on this topic. If Dreu or any other member of the LRT wishes to continue with this conversation, provide evidence. If you cannot, it is time you stopped spreading rumours and tried to win the election on what your party stands for (it is also time to stop recruiting new members or sponsoring them so there is some level of loyalty to whomever sponsors them... many Talossans have jobs, we cannot afford to be on the Witt 24/7).

Also, starting this Wednesday, a new policy will be enacted for the TA program. A new email is being set up. All TAs will now be required to forward any and all email and or communications to the Minister of Immigration. Failure to do so will result in a persons removal from he program(the cc is not that hard to use).

Good night and may the gods bless!

~Ministry of Immigration~

I apologize in full to the RUMP, as S:reu Vürinalt said that the RUMP had contacted him, but obviously he had not. Sorry.

This is not hearsay, I asked S:reu Vürinalt, and he can post to confirm this. Sorry. Now I agree this has no reason to continue, so let it not.

[EM Vürinalt]

Since this is about me I'm going to explain. Dreu, stop being my mouth for me.

Okay, I have saved the PMs from S:reu Asmoûr saying to "vote CCCP." In fact, the title of the PM is such. I don't know if the administration can do anything to see these, or if I'll have to give my username and password to somebody in order for an investigation.

Now, I told Dreu I was unsure if a person from the RUMP had contacted me or not. Being caught up in this web of political lobbying, it is possible that I am mistaken. I told Dreu specifically not to mention to RUMP because I was unsure of it. Sadly, he seems to have not listened to me.

Two people not included in Dreu's list is he himself and S:reu Caçeir.

Please realize that S:reu Caçeir and I are personal and real life friends and we had discused Talossan politics in our government class. I understand that many of you will not take my word on this- but him and I had read all the party statements. I agreed with the LRT and CCCP (and was originally going to join the later), but after discussion with S:reu Caçeir we had both collectively decided that the LRT was better.

I understand the whole "dirty politics" thing, and I should have waited to get involved. Understand I was not pressured into joining any of the parties and had done this out of my own personal choice. Sure, the representatives from the other parties did "lobby" but my choice was mine alone. Yes, an influencing factor was the fact that S:reu Caçeir had joined the party, but it was not why.

I apologize from the people of Talossa for jumping in head first, I thought the waters were deep enough. I guess they weren't.

If need be, you can void my vote and I will not vote nor delcare party allegiance until the next election.

~Vürinalt~

[Dréu Gavárþic'h]

mbenzschawel said:

Since this is about me I'm going to explain. Dreu, stop being my mouth for me.

Okay, I have saved the PMs from S:reu Asmoûr saying to "vote CCCP." In fact, the title of the PM is such. I don't know if the administration can do anything to see these, or if I'll have to give my username and password to somebody in order for an investigation.

Now, I told Dreu I was unsure if a person from the RUMP had contacted me or not. Being caught up in this web of political lobbying, it is possible that I am mistaken. I told Dreu specifically not to mention to RUMP because I was unsure of it. Sadly, he seems to have not listened to me.

Two people not included in Dreu's list is he himself and S:reu Caçeir.

Please realize that S:reu Caçeir and I are personal and real life friends and we had discused Talossan politics in our government class. I understand that many of you will not take my word on this- but him and I had read all the party statements. I agreed with the LRT and CCCP (and was originally going to join the later), but after discussion with S:reu Caçeir we had both collectively decided that the LRT was better.

I understand the whole "dirty politics" thing, and I should have waited to get involved. Understand I was not pressured into joining any of the parties and had done this out of my own personal choice. Sure, the representatives from the other parties did "lobby" but my choice was mine alone. Yes, an influencing factor was the fact that S:reu Caçeir had joined the party, but it was not why.

I apologize from the people of Talossa for jumping in head first, I thought the waters were deep enough. I guess they weren't.

If need be, you can void my vote and I will not vote nor delcare party allegiance until the next election.

~Vürinalt~

Thank you very much S:reu Vürinalt I am glad we can now put this matter to a close.

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

Matáiwos -

You acted in good faith, without the knowledge that your actions or discussions might have been considered else wise.

As far as the Chancellery is concerned, there was 'no harm, no foul'. There is no need to change or retract anything. There is no need to drag this out further.

And, on a personal note- I'm glad yer here, and I ain't gots no problem with ya.

[Deleted]

mbenzschawel said:

Since this is about me I'm going to explain. Dreu, stop being my mouth for me.

Okay, I have saved the PMs from S:reu Asmoûr saying to "vote CCCP." In fact, the title of the PM is such. I don't know if the administration can do anything to see these, or if I'll have to give my username and password to somebody in order for an investigation.

Now, I told Dreu I was unsure if a person from the RUMP had contacted me or not. Being caught up in this web of political lobbying, it is possible that I am mistaken. I told Dreu specifically not to mention to RUMP because I was unsure of it. Sadly, he seems to have not listened to me.

Two people not included in Dreu's list is he himself and S:reu Caçeir.

Please realize that S:reu Caçeir and I are personal and real life friends and we had discused Talossan politics in our government class. I understand that many of you will not take my word on this- but him and I had read all the party statements. I agreed with the LRT and CCCP (and was originally going to join the later), but after discussion with S:reu Caçeir we had both collectively decided that the LRT was better.

I understand the whole "dirty politics" thing, and I should have waited to get involved. Understand I was not pressured into joining any of the parties and had done this out of my own personal choice. Sure, the representatives from the other parties did "lobby" but my choice was mine alone. Yes, an influencing factor was the fact that S:reu Caçeir had joined the party, but it was not why.

I apologize from the people of Talossa for jumping in head first, I thought the waters were deep enough. I guess they weren't.

If need be, you can void my vote and I will not vote nor delcare party allegiance until the next election.

~Vürinalt~

There is nothing wrong with being excited about Talossa and getting involved in the politics. However, that is a choice for the applicant to make, not for a political party. You're discussion with your friend does not fall under jurisdiction, you both made the decision together. But the LRT has been confirmed as lobbying, I have yet to see proof of it about the CCCP. Not to call you a liar, but a party's integrity is at question here, so until proof may be provided, I can not take any alligation as fact. It is just hearsay.

Sidenote, Dreu, someone merely saying something on the Witt does not make it valid. Proof must be provided. I am sorry that you could not see that important fact that was dripping from my previous post 3 meters in front you; that is what i have been asking for, proof.

[Mr. Tony Weckström]

As the party member and leader of the DPD, and Ambassador of Talossa, I would like to point out my personal view in this matter.

I agree with the Honourable Éovart Caçeir, that a parliamentary monarchy does simply LIMIT the powers of the King, and NOT ABOLISH the the "Kingdom" itself.

It also the view of DPD, that the Kingdom shall remain, but the system of Government should be based on a monarchy dependent on parliamentarism.

Seasons greetings to all!

edwardwadas said:

philmungai said:

I personally despise a monarch but have no problems with King John specifically. I just hate having someone totally above others.

You described an absolute monarchy. A parliamentary/constitutional monarchy like the Kingdom of Talossa limits the political power of the monarch, and he is only a part of an intricate political system.

[EM Vürinalt]

mick said:

Matáiwos -

You acted in good faith, without the knowledge that your actions or discussions might have been considered else wise.

As far as the Chancellery is concerned, there was 'no harm, no foul'. There is no need to change or retract anything. There is no need to drag this out further.

And, on a personal note- I'm glad yer here, and I ain't gots no problem with ya.

Okay, thanks for encouragement.

Seeming as though this problem needs to be resolved, I think there should be something done about it. I'm sure that's in everybody's minds - making and passing a bill about the extent of political lobbying, specifically for prospective citizens.

Perhaps I could help with this due to the fact that I seem to be one of the few victims of it.

vitooliver said:

There is nothing wrong with being excited about Talossa and getting involved in the politics. However, that is a choice for the applicant to make, not for a political party. You're discussion with your friend does not fall under jurisdiction, you both made the decision together. But the LRT has been confirmed as lobbying, I have yet to see proof of it about the CCCP. Not to call you a liar, but a party's integrity is at question here, so until proof may be provided, I can not take any alligation as fact. It is just hearsay.

I'd be glad to provide evidence regarding the CCCP allegations, I saved the PMs I just need a way to forward them or to have somebody else look at them.

I'm a new and humble citizen to the Kingdom, I'd be glad to help you guys to resolve this any way I can.

~Vürinalt~

[Owen Edwards]

Viteu, I do take some objection to you responding to my post about SOMETHING DIFFERENT to accuse my party - in as much as I was speaking - of avoiding the issue. Recruitment is not my purview - I was asking Xhorxh for a further affirmation that he was not directly indicting the LRT over the broadness of his post.

Again, there are issues involving pots, kettles and black here. I am entirely unsure as to why it is being deemed acceptable for RUMP members to engage in mudslinging - in this case, Viteu - but the LRT is being branded as practicing "dirty politics".

I heartily concur with S:reu Caceir and Captain Preston and call for something of a moratorium on the current merry go round.