Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Apr 21, 2013 13:58:21 GMT -6
Since the other thread seems completely derailed, Im gonna use this one to come back to the original subject.
It seems my original question hasnt been fully answered yet. Which IND MC's made this coalition a reality? Who supports this coalition?
In another thread the new Seneschal said the RUMP did have to compromise in order come to this coalition. What exactly does this compromise consist of?
Im surprised that there is not some written coalition agreement or anything. Im hoping the coalition partners are still prepared to come up with something like that for transparency's sake.
Btw, I guess some of the confusion may again be due to cultural differences. I guess most of us are citizens of countries where government coalitions like this are more exception than rule and in those countries where coalitions are more common, the procedures probably differ.
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Post by Colonel Mximo Carbonèl on Apr 21, 2013 14:06:39 GMT -6
Hi,
No need for coallition here in Canada. Since you need to get your budget approve by the House sometime opposition send not enought MP to vote... Here in Quebec the Parti Quebecois control 54 seats... and it's a minority governement without a coallition.
Last budget the official opposition send out only 27 out of 50 to vote... the bill on the budget pass by a vote of 53 to 52...
Mximo
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Apr 21, 2013 14:09:40 GMT -6
Never understood what you have against coalitions in Canada. Oh well.
Well, we can start by assuming that Ministers Perþonest and Ben-Ard will be supporting the VoC! And remember that virtually all the other INDs are RUMP gene-pool, so perhaps your answer is "all of them".
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Apr 21, 2013 14:10:46 GMT -6
Since the other thread seems completely derailed, Im gonna use this one to come back to the original subject. My apologies for not fully responding. MC Litz Cjantscheir MC Txosuè Pologn I responded to this, specifically that the RUMP keep in the government The Rt. Honorable Pertgonest and The Rt. Honorable Ardpresteir. Our agreement was a series of emails and/or gtalk discussions. I will get that all in an acceptable format and posted as soon as possible. Exactly.
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Apr 21, 2013 14:12:07 GMT -6
Never understood what you have against coalitions in Canada. Oh well. Well, we can start by assuming that Ministers Perþonest and Ben-Ard will be supporting the VoC! And remember that virtually all the other INDs are RUMP gene-pool, so perhaps your answer is "all of them". I'd appreciate if in the future you do not put words directly into my mouth and instead hold back a bit and wait for my response. Thanks.
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Post by Munditenens Tresplet on Apr 21, 2013 14:14:24 GMT -6
Does it really matter which IND MCs supported the coalition? In the end, at the heart of it, it is possible to get enough NON VoC votes to dissolve the current government anyway. There never was really a "need" for a "formal" coalition agreement, because if the MCs that support the current government lose faith in it, they always have the option to NON it in the next Clark.
I'm a RUMP-er, and I could vote NON if I chose to. There is nothing binding my vote, other than the faith of my party leadership that I wouldn't do such a thing. Any "contract" between myself and the leadership that stiplulates how I must vote would be inOrganic.
EDIT: I was writing my post while my Dr. Nordselva was posting his. My apologies.
Let's not forget, though, that the King is Organically required to pick a Seneschal whose government could withstand a Vote of Confidence. Yet, every Clark, the Secretary of State is Organically required to take a VoC. If a government can always theoretically withstand a VoC, why have them? It is simple--MCs always have the option of voting their beliefs, rather than always blindly subscribing to party ideologies. (See the IND.)
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Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on Apr 21, 2013 14:19:40 GMT -6
Well, we can start by assuming that Ministers Perþonest and Ben-Ard will be supporting the VoC! Ben-Ard doesn't hold any Cosâ seat and cannot vote on the VoC.
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Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on Apr 21, 2013 14:24:10 GMT -6
Does it really matter which IND MCs supported the coalition? Of course. Their voters voted IND, not RUMP, but got a RUMP government. You can't suggest that this isn't important? The electorate needs to know what happened and what they got out of the deal. Which non-RUMP policies will now be implemented as a result? That's the whole point of entering into a coalition, to further your own political agenda, the agenda the voters voted for.
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Post by Munditenens Tresplet on Apr 21, 2013 14:32:13 GMT -6
Does it really matter which IND MCs supported the coalition? Of course. Their voters voted IND, not RUMP, but got a RUMP government. You can't suggest that this isn't important? The electorate needs to know what happened and what they got out of the deal. Which non-RUMP policies will now be implemented as a result? That's the whole point of entering into a coalition, to further your own political agenda, the agenda the voters voted for. Who, then, would you suggest lead the government? There is only one Seneschal, yet there are multiple parties, of which no party made it past a 50% threshold. Perhaps this is where the word coalition comes into play. If the voters voted for Party X, not Party Y, yet they got a Party Y government, they are welcome to voice their opinion in the next General Election. That is the reason why we have elections.
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Apr 21, 2013 14:56:44 GMT -6
Well, we can start by assuming that Ministers Perþonest and Ben-Ard will be supporting the VoC! Ben-Ard doesn't hold any Cosâ seat and cannot vote on the VoC. Yes he does. The IND seat assignments were changed.
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Apr 21, 2013 15:00:52 GMT -6
Since the other thread seems completely derailed, Im gonna use this one to come back to the original subject. My apologies for not fully responding. MC Litz Cjantscheir MC Txosuè Pologn I responded to this, specifically that the RUMP keep in the government The Rt. Honorable Pertgonest and The Rt. Honorable Ardpresteir. Our agreement was a series of emails and/or gtalk discussions. I will get that all in an acceptable format and posted as soon as possible. Exactly. Thanks you for your response. I look forward to seeing the agreement. PS Just to avoid further confusion, the coalition supporting this government consists of RUMP, Litz Cjanstscheir and Txosuè Pologn? Which means the 2 IND ministers are part of the government but not of the coalition that was formed to support it. Is that correct, or are the two IND minister part of that as well?
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Apr 21, 2013 15:01:06 GMT -6
Yes I believe Ben-Ard holds 1 seat in the Cosa.
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Istefan Perþonest
Cunstaval to Fiôvâ; Regent of the University of Talossa
Posts: 1,024
Talossan Since: 2-21-1998
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Post by Istefan Perþonest on Apr 21, 2013 15:16:41 GMT -6
Well, one of the tricky bits is that the IND doesn't really work like a single party, since we don't have a party platform, or whip, or, well, anything else that makes us a real party, even on a RUMP level. The agenda a vote for IND advances is "We'd like the members of IND who want seats in the Cosa to have influence".
Since a vote for IND wound up putting me in a position where either coalition was going to have me as FinMin, arguably the most powerful position in the Cabinet, I'd say such votes succeeded admirably. And since those votes for IND put other IND MCs in a position to decide which coalition would run things, it succeeded there, too.
It's a peculiar party, yes. Perhaps even Peculiar.
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Owen Edwards
Puisne Justice
Posts: 1,400
Talossan Since: 12-8-2007
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Post by Owen Edwards on Apr 21, 2013 15:18:21 GMT -6
Potentially Peculiar, depends on your policies. Realpolitik, though, and I mean that as a good thing.
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Istefan Perþonest
Cunstaval to Fiôvâ; Regent of the University of Talossa
Posts: 1,024
Talossan Since: 2-21-1998
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Post by Istefan Perþonest on Apr 21, 2013 15:21:51 GMT -6
PS Just to avoid further confusion, the coalition supporting this government consists of RUMP, Litz Cjanstscheir and Txosuè Pologn? Which means the 2 IND ministers are part of the government but not of the coalition that was formed to support it. Is that correct, or are the two IND minister part of that as well? I am personally committed to supporting the VoC as long as I'm a minister, which included my being clear that if the Government adopted a position that provokes me to resign, my votes go with me. I was not part of any IND-in-general talks, though I did inform the other IND members of the offers I got from both coalitions and the precise degree of agreement I reached with each.
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