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Post by Breneir Itravilatx on Jul 20, 2009 22:23:03 GMT -6
How is it like that, Senator? The bill that you and S:reu Edwards proposed actually proves that there is interest. In that vein, I thank the Captain for his support Further, I will be one individual that would ensure that this does not become an "empty commission".
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jul 20, 2009 22:30:36 GMT -6
Will the Honourable MC be creating his own initiative to do this privately if this bill fails?
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Post by Breneir Itravilatx on Jul 20, 2009 22:32:11 GMT -6
I will be asking for a Prime Dictate if this bill receives overwhelming support in the Cosa and is blocked by the Senats.
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Brad Holmes
Cunstaval to Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Atatürkey, and flying by the seat of my RUMP
Posts: 1,014
Talossan Since: 3-16-2006
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Post by Brad Holmes on Jul 21, 2009 6:00:49 GMT -6
I will be asking for a Prime Dictate if this bill receives overwhelming support in the Cosa and is blocked by the Senats. That wasn't what Senator Davis asked. Asking for a Prime Dictate short circuits the legislative process, it defeats the checks and balances in place. I believe the question was: if this fails (and I'm one more vote against it), are you going to personally start this as an NGO (which I, like Senator Davis, believe this endeavor is best served)?
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Post by Breneir Itravilatx on Jul 21, 2009 8:37:26 GMT -6
Senator Holmes, I did not expect you to vote for this bill as I have observed your past voting record. I believe that is a worthwhile government venture to be involved in humanitarian assistance. The United States Agency for International Development (USAID-USA), Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA-Canada) are just two examples.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2009 8:54:42 GMT -6
First, let me say that I support this bill.
Furthermore, I find it ludicrous that we created a Space Program but humanitarian aid would be an unneeded government office.
In the event the Senate should defeat such a measure, we can appeal to the Foreign Minister who has the authority to create a Bureau which functions in the very same way.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jul 21, 2009 20:35:10 GMT -6
I will be asking for a Prime Dictate if this bill receives overwhelming support in the Cosa and is blocked by the Senats. That wasn't what Senator Davis asked. Asking for a Prime Dictate short circuits the legislative process, it defeats the checks and balances in place. I believe the question was: if this fails (and I'm one more vote against it), are you going to personally start this as an NGO (which I, like Senator Davis, believe this endeavor is best served)? Senator Holmes, I did not expect you to vote for this bill as I have observed your past voting record. I believe that is a worthwhile government venture to be involved in humanitarian assistance. The United States Agency for International Development (USAID-USA), Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA-Canada) are just two examples. Seems like a "no." First, let me say that I support this bill. Furthermore, I find it ludicrous that we created a Space Program but humanitarian aid would be an unneeded government office. In the event the Senate should defeat such a measure, we can appeal to the Foreign Minister who has the authority to create a Bureau which functions in the very same way. I believe you are misconstruing my argument entirely, S:reu MC. My argument is not that humanitarian aid is less worthy. I am only arguing that government regulation and bureaucratization should try to come after an effort, and not attempt to magically legislate the effort into existence.
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Ieremiac'h Ventrutx
Former Senator of Florencia ~ Citizen of Talossa
Posts: 990
Talossan Since: 3-1-1997
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Post by Ieremiac'h Ventrutx on Jul 22, 2009 9:37:34 GMT -6
So why do we need this? I give regularly to other non profit organizations but I do it personally... I don't really want to it through Talossa.
If this was a specific humanitarian effort to raise funds for a specific event perhaps. I see little reason to jump on board this band wagon.
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Post by Breneir Itravilatx on Jul 22, 2009 10:40:09 GMT -6
*sighs* in the direction of the curmudgeonly Senats. Charles Dickens would have a second edition of Scrooge from the words of our Senators.
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Flip Molinar
Talossan since 1-1-2008
Proud Talossan
Posts: 1,592
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Post by Flip Molinar on Jul 22, 2009 16:03:09 GMT -6
The truth is, we all can choose to give to whatever organization or group we like, privately. That's not the issue here, S:reux MC's-no, the issue here is, is such an agency of government useful? I'd argue an emphatic UC on that question.
Imagine if the US foreign Aid fund did not exist today. When a famine strikes Uganda, sure a lot of Americans will give, but public donation is not enough. Without government backing an effort such as that will not succeed.
The point is let's get this set up now when we have the ability to truly focus on it.
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Ieremiac'h Ventrutx
Former Senator of Florencia ~ Citizen of Talossa
Posts: 990
Talossan Since: 3-1-1997
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Post by Ieremiac'h Ventrutx on Jul 22, 2009 19:22:32 GMT -6
I had to say something lest I get accused of being a do nothing Senator when I vote against it... I am against it, I will lead the charge to squash this in the Senate.
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Post by Breneir Itravilatx on Jul 22, 2009 19:38:19 GMT -6
Unfortunately, I am starting to realize that this is an issue of ideology. I am somewhat ashamed to see that I have colleagues in the Senats that can state openly that they do not think that a government can and should be involved in humanitarian action.
When I lived in Canada, I was proud to see that the government was involved in relieving hunger in Africa and South Asia and I was pleased that after the Indian Ocean Tsunami, the US government provided relief supplies to populations from Aceh to Somalia. In concert with private institutions, billions were generated in a short time. I have seen the benefits of government action to relieve human misery free of political machinations. Perhaps some have not had that opportunity and maybe that is why there is such a cold response to this measure. But I must say that I am chilled.
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Ieremiac'h Ventrutx
Former Senator of Florencia ~ Citizen of Talossa
Posts: 990
Talossan Since: 3-1-1997
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Post by Ieremiac'h Ventrutx on Jul 22, 2009 21:03:01 GMT -6
I disagree ... I give over 15% of my income away and I would give more if it was prudent. I just don't agree that the government will do as good a job as I do in choosing whom to give it to. I do not think it is your ideology that sets you apart it is your belief that the government IS the answer compared to my belief that the PEOPLE are the answer. If you want to give do it. If I want to give, I will. I don't need a government body making those decisions for me. After further thought... maybe 'ideology' is the correct term after all
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Post by Breneir Itravilatx on Jul 22, 2009 21:34:57 GMT -6
Wordplay is not the answer here, Senator. Nor is affirmation of what we do personally. Government is not THE answer but it is ONE of them as I believe that the government (at its best) is the sum of the collective will of a people or peoples. Therefore, I see nothing incongruent with a government giving aid...it is a statement of the peoples values and will.
So yes, it is ideology. My view that government can act as an instrument to better the lives of people and yours which apparently believes that people need protection from their own government.
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Ieremiac'h Ventrutx
Former Senator of Florencia ~ Citizen of Talossa
Posts: 990
Talossan Since: 3-1-1997
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Post by Ieremiac'h Ventrutx on Jul 22, 2009 22:32:12 GMT -6
Wordplay is not the answer here, Senator. Nor is affirmation of what we do personally. Government is not THE answer but it is ONE of them as I believe that the government (at its best) is the sum of the collective will of a people or peoples. Therefore, I see nothing incongruent with a government giving aid...it is a statement of the peoples values and will. Again, I would disagree, if the government decided as a whole to give $ to Focus on the Family or the American Family Defense Fund I am sure there would be something that someone that is not part of "the collective" that would not agree that their value's would be represented. My view that government can act as an instrument to better the lives of people and yours which apparently believes that people need protection from their own government. Now who is using word play? Sure the government CAN act as an instrument to better the lives of people but does it always? There are cases where acting together as a "collective" would be benificial, this is not always the case as is evident by this proposed bill. Since, I am a Defender of Talossa I would also agree that sometimes the Talossan people need to be protected even from the government, as a matter of fact the origional Defenders of Talossa had a plank for just that "Defending Talossa even from itself." No word play, this is a poor use of our time. If Talossa needs to give money away for you to feel good about yourself and your nation then great, start filling the royal treasury. Put enough money in so we soon will have a problem and be able to go through all the work to form policy, a minister and a committee and whatever it takes to give away your money. I am not against it because I am evil, I am against it because I disagree with you.
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