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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2009 12:45:08 GMT -6
WHEREAS the Ziu is the bicameral legislative body of the Kingdom of Talossa, divided into the bodies of the Cosa and the Senats and
WHEREAS there exist conditions which place limits upon Members of the Cosa, such as provisions for the removal of an MC from Office and
WHEREAS the Senats remains under no such restrictions and
WHEREAS because the Senats is composed of only one senator from each province, the body is rather small and
WHEREAS this means a Senator, holds quite a bit of legislative influence yet may suffer no consequence for failing to fairly represent their constituents until re-election time and
WHEREAS Senators, as directly elected officials should be held accountable for their actions by the people who elected them, so
THEREFORE,
Article V Section 5 of the Organic Law is hereby amended to read:
A Senator vacates his seats if he fails to vote on two consecutive Clarks, or if he resign from office, loses his citizenship or dies. A Senator may also be removed following a recall election. Each Province is permitted to recall its Senator pursuant to applicable provincial law.
The recall shall be initiated by the Provincial Assembly in a measure presented during a legislative session, with a suitable replacement candidate being named at this point. If the measure is approved by the Assembly, the Premier or Cunstaval shall ensure a Referendum is conducted by whomever the Provincial Assembly should designate in accordance with Provincial law. No province shall be permitted to hold more than 3 senate recall referenda per term, per Senator. The Premier shall send notification of this referendum to each provincial citizen electronically, or by mail should electronic transmission be impossible or impractical and posted in a prominent location for public scrutiny. The referendum ballot shall last not less than 10 days to allow citizens to study the measure and cast their vote.
If the measure passes with a 2/3 majority vote, the Senator shall be considered recalled. The Referendum results shall then be transmitted to the Secretary of State and the Mençéi, who shall ensure the Senator vacates his office immediately by that end of that month and the named replacement shall be installed. Should the named replacement become unable, unwilling or ineligible to assume the Senate seat, a replacement shall be chosen according to applicable Provincial Law.
Uréu q'estadra sa: T.M. Asmourescu
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2009 6:29:58 GMT -6
Is there anything that would prevent us from making sub-sections?
I know there are not any in the OrgLaw, but with an amendment of this size and scope, I would imagine that if each paragraph could be, say "sub-section a, b, c" it would make for an easier read and much easier to reference.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Mar 18, 2009 10:43:29 GMT -6
I would advise not making a new set of lower subsections than exist elsewhere in the OrgLaw. You might consider inserting the language as new sections and renumbering the subsequent ones.
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Brad Holmes
Cunstaval to Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Atatürkey, and flying by the seat of my RUMP
Posts: 1,014
Talossan Since: 3-16-2006
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Post by Brad Holmes on Mar 19, 2009 19:44:42 GMT -6
What happens if the Premier doesn't appoint somebody within 5 days, *and* the Cunstaval doesn't make an appointment within the 5 days either?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2009 20:05:42 GMT -6
If neither the Premier nor the Cunstaval appoint a Senator, why did either of them initiate a recall?
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Mar 19, 2009 20:23:09 GMT -6
It would still seem a possibility that should be addressed, rather than risk any shenanigans.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2009 5:00:26 GMT -6
I worry that it may be a slippery slope. We need to take into consideration the overall fear we are addressing. Essentially, we are worried that a Premier or a Cunstaval will initiate a recall, hold a referendum, and then fail to choose a replacement. Why in the heck would they do that?
I can include a provision that, should the Cunstaval fail to choose a replacement within the allotted time, the decision will go to the Provincial Assembly but it really has to end there. Otherwise, we can go on for many many paragraphs with who the duty passes on to in the event the previous person fails to act. Also, most Provincial Constitutions do not bar the Senator from sitting in the Assembly, meaning it is possible the Senator can reappoint themselves.
Our other options are another Referendum, a Royal Appointment, an Appointment by the Mencei or we acknowledge that, just like in every other area of law, there runs the risk of people not doing their job but in this case would be highly unlikely, as the Premier or Cunstaval would have to be A) Active and B) Interested in replacing the Senator for the whole process to really get off the ground.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2009 11:49:50 GMT -6
One more possibility occurred to me at work today. How would you guys feel if, in the event the Premier AND Cunstaval fail to appoint a new Senator within their allotted time frame, the Premier automatically becomes the Senator? That should handle our "just in case" so that under no circumstances will the Province be left without representation in the Senate.
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Brad Holmes
Cunstaval to Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Atatürkey, and flying by the seat of my RUMP
Posts: 1,014
Talossan Since: 3-16-2006
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Post by Brad Holmes on Mar 20, 2009 16:26:05 GMT -6
One more possibility occurred to me at work today. How would you guys feel if, in the event the Premier AND Cunstaval fail to appoint a new Senator within their allotted time frame, the Premier automatically becomes the Senator? That should handle our "just in case" so that under no circumstances will the Province be left without representation in the Senate. I don't really have a preference. But as for the Premier being the default replacement, I consider Ataturk to be without a Premier at the moment. And if he refuses? I understand that he's likely a vocal person in initiating the recall, but what if it took him more than 5 days to find a suitable nominee? I guess I have two questions now. Why the 5 days and what happens if nobody wants to become Senator? (Tim, I'm not trying to be a jackass here, I just want a strong and solid amendment. I hope my criticisms/thoughts are perceived as constructive troubleshooting.)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2009 17:33:27 GMT -6
No, it's a good point, I just want to resolve it as easily as possible without making and endless chain of succession.
I did 5 days because after the people oust a Senator, 10 days should give the government time to notify the appointee officially and make the announcement, allowing the new Senator to sit for the next Clark.
So, we have choices. We can pass the decision back to the people, we can kick it to the federal government (which does not seem in keeping with the rest of the amendment) or we can just designate a person to take the spot.
What if we say the party majority leader in that province?
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Mar 20, 2009 18:42:19 GMT -6
It is not entirely out of the realm of possibility for both the premier and cunstaval to fail to reappoint within 5 days. Bad luck could have it that the Premier has to take a leave of absence dur to family issues outwith Talossa at the same time as the Cunstaval's internet connection mysteriously goes down. Hey, it could happen, We have all seen stranger things happen in our lives.
The logical explanation would be to extend the time limit. I understand the point made as to allow the new guy time to get ready for the clark votes, however, what if the senators ousting occured 4 days before a clark's voting deadline? Like Tim says, this could go on and on and on with endless paragraphs dealing with every possible scenario.
How about;
...The recall shall be initiated by the Provincial Assembly in a measure presented during a legislative session, with a suitable replacement candidate being named at this point. The Premier or Cunstaval shall ensure a Referendum is conducted by whomever the Provincial Assembly should designate in accordance with Provincial law. ...
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Brad Holmes
Cunstaval to Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Atatürkey, and flying by the seat of my RUMP
Posts: 1,014
Talossan Since: 3-16-2006
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Post by Brad Holmes on Mar 20, 2009 19:36:17 GMT -6
How about; ...The recall shall be initiated by the Provincial Assembly in a measure presented during a legislative session, with a suitable replacement candidate being named at this point. The Premier or Cunstaval shall ensure a Referendum is conducted by whomever the Provincial Assembly should designate in accordance with Provincial law. ... I like this idea. Actually, I like it a lot. It accomplishes the goal of removing a Senator, but at the same time presents an intended plan of action and continuity. The named replacement would even be popularly voted for. Sort of. It would boil down to: Senator X, whom some think is doing a poor job, or this guy who is qualified and willing to serve out the remainder of the term. Break. Another thing that occurred to me - If everything happens in the middle of a business month, before the end of the Clark, does the recalled Senator vote, or does the new guy? What if the recalled Senator has already cast his vote? I think that the recalled Senator should not leave office immediately, but rather he leaves by the end of that current month. ( Month instead of Clark to cover a no-business month)
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Mar 20, 2009 19:41:39 GMT -6
Another thing that occurred to me - If everything happens in the middle of a business month, before the end of the Clark, does the recalled Senator vote, or does the new guy? What if the recalled Senator has already cast his vote? I think that the recalled Senator should not leave office immediately, but rather he leaves by the end of that current month. ( Month instead of Clark to cover a no-business month) Yeah, I concur with that.
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Xhorxh Asmour
Talossan since 02-21-2003
Wot? Me, worry?
Posts: 1,754
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Post by Xhorxh Asmour on Mar 20, 2009 21:45:02 GMT -6
I agree.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2009 8:12:55 GMT -6
I made the changes you guys recommended and threw in at the bottom if the person named as a replacement doesn't take the spot (for whatever reason) Provincial law will determine how to fill the spot.
I figure this way, the OrgLaw permits the removal, and Provinces with Constitutions can draft all sorts of fun legislation concerning recalls, that is, if they do them at all, when they are permitted, and who gets to fill the spot if a named replacement bows out. After all, while we want a solid amendment, we do want to give the provinces some choice in the matter. Lest we forget, a province can decide that they aren't going to recall Senators at all, and to them this is a non-issue.
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