Brad Holmes
Cunstaval to Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Atatürkey, and flying by the seat of my RUMP
Posts: 1,014
Talossan Since: 3-16-2006
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Post by Brad Holmes on Mar 6, 2009 15:45:42 GMT -6
I have amended the original bill. I highlighted the bit about a maximum of 3 attempts per term, per Senator because I think it would still be a good idea...but since we are placing it back in the laps of the people, we we better off not limiting it at all? I like the limited attempts. While the Senator should be able to be recalled, he shouldn't have to worry about the threat of a recall every single Clark if he votes his conscience. If Provincial Assemblyman B really hates Senator A, there would be no limit to the harassment. Please include the limit.
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Post by Owen Edwards on Mar 6, 2009 15:50:45 GMT -6
I think Brad echoes my concern from above - it depends upon the activity of the assembly of course...how many assemblymen are needed to continue the harassment, etc.
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Post by Daniel Filan on Mar 6, 2009 16:04:35 GMT -6
Could you please post the bill without all of the striked-out sections? At the moment it's kind of hard to read.
Anyway, I think that there should definitely be a maximum number of recalls. It just seems to me like a good check on this power.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2009 16:09:16 GMT -6
So amended....any other suggestions? And I'm also curious about the opinions of some of our other colleagues like JP and AD.
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Ieremiac'h Ventrutx
Former Senator of Florencia ~ Citizen of Talossa
Posts: 990
Talossan Since: 3-1-1997
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Post by Ieremiac'h Ventrutx on Mar 6, 2009 16:17:17 GMT -6
So amended....any other suggestions? And I'm also curious about the opinions of some of our other colleagues like JP and AD. There you go with the name calling again .... Give me a night to sleep on it. I like where it is headed ...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2009 16:28:36 GMT -6
Very good then. Let's all sleep on it. Fresh eyes and cooler heads shall prevail.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Mar 7, 2009 0:23:13 GMT -6
I would suggest the following changes: Language which acknowledges the varying manners in which provincial assemblies function. Language which assigns responsibility for the notices sent to each citizen (I believe "chief executive of the province" is reasonable as mentioned), and which provides for alternatives such as snail mail or fax. Language which assigns responsibility for conducting the referendum, presumably in such a manner as "by whomever the provincial assembly chooses" or something of the sort.
Some of these elements are sort-of present, but I think the language is clumsy and unclear on these points at present despite their importance. When considering a matter such as a recall, the specifics of how and when it is conducted are paramount, since it is in the nooks and crannies of the law that corruption can be survive.
These are my suggested changes, but with or without them I will vote for this bill in the Senats out of respect for the wishes of my constituents. Without these changes, however, I don't think I would vote for it when it comes time for the referendum to amend.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2009 6:49:24 GMT -6
Thanks for the feedback, Alex. I highlighted some new areas in bold, but if you could elaborate on some of the points you'd like to correct I would appreciate it, as it stands I'm not sure if I came near what you were suggesting. And I'm not sure how else we can acknowledge the various manners in which the provinces operate, so any feedback you can offer on that would be appreciated.
The recall shall be initiated by the Provincial Assembly in a measure presented during a legislative session. If the measure is approved by the Assembly, the Premier or Cunstaval shall ensure a Referendum is conducted by whomever the Provincial Assembly should designate in accordance with Provincial law. No province shall be permitted to hold more than 3 senate recall referenda per term, per Senator. The Premier shall send notification of this referendum to each provincial citizen electronically, or by mail or fax should electronic transmission be impossible or impractical and posted in a prominent location for public scrutiny. The referendum ballot shall last not less than 10 days to allow citizens to study the measure and cast their vote. If the measure passes with a 2/3 majority vote, the Senator shall be considered recalled. The Referendum results shall then be transmitted to the Secretary of State and the Mençéi, who shall ensure the Senator vacates his office. A replacement shall be appointed from among the province's citizenry by the Premier within 5 days. In the event the Premier fails to appoint a new Senator, or the Province is without a Constitution, the Cunstaval shall have 5 days to make the appointment.
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Mar 7, 2009 8:51:04 GMT -6
The recall shall be initiated by the Provincial Assembly in a measure presented during a legislative session. If the measure is approved by the Assembly, the Premier or Cunstuval shall ensure a Referendum is conducted by whomever the Provincial Assembly should designate in accordance with Provincial law. No province shall be permitted to hold more than 3 senate recall referenda per term, per Senator. The Chief Executive of the Province shall send notification of this referendum to each provincial citizen electronically, or by mail or fax should electronic transmission be impossible or infeasible and posted in a prominent location for public scrutiny. The referendum ballot shall last not less than 10 days to allow citizens to study the measure and cast their vote. If the measure passes with a 2/3 majority vote, the Senator shall be considered recalled. The Referendum results shall then be transmitted to the Secretary of State and the Mençéi, who shall ensure the Senator vacates his office. A replacement shall be appointed from among the province's citizenry by the Premier within 5 days. In the event the Premier fails to appoint a new Senator, or the Province is without a Constitution, the Cunstuval shall have 5 days to make the appointment. I like that.
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Post by Daniel Filan on Mar 7, 2009 16:33:47 GMT -6
Cool.
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Ieremiac'h Ventrutx
Former Senator of Florencia ~ Citizen of Talossa
Posts: 990
Talossan Since: 3-1-1997
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Post by Ieremiac'h Ventrutx on Mar 7, 2009 20:10:53 GMT -6
um ... fax is electronic transmition.... still mulling it over.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2009 8:37:50 GMT -6
So noted.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Mar 9, 2009 7:56:42 GMT -6
Cunstaval, not cunstuval. The terms cunstaval and premier are used several times in the proposal. If premier is meant by "chief executive of the province," why not just say premier again? Using inconsistent language creates the potential for confusion.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2009 8:36:20 GMT -6
That's true....I imagine if we used inconsistent language, particularly language that isn't used in the OrgLaw or the (at least our) Provincial Constitution, we are opening the door for dispute. After all, a Cunstaval might argue that s/he is the Chief Executive, who knows? In any case, I agree and firmly believe that 4 bananas are not 3 bananas and one elongated yellow fruit.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Mar 12, 2009 20:54:23 GMT -6
I agree with Cresti's point. I also have to say that while this is very acceptable substantively at this point, the amending process has made it into a difficult-to-read and clumsy paragraph. I think maybe you should try rewriting it with the changes, and maybe break it up a bit into two paragraphs for the ease of future Organic scholars.
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