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Post by Owen Edwards on Mar 5, 2009 17:25:56 GMT -6
Your Majesty
I suspect you will find that a large proportion of the population would not agree that the current balance of power is suitable.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Mar 5, 2009 18:58:55 GMT -6
Wow... the word arrives in truly Kingly fashion. Thank you, Your Majesty.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2009 20:23:38 GMT -6
The US and KoT are two different animals. The timeframes for each country are also a lot slower. We don't have committees that work out the text on bills that are hundreds of pages in length. Six years is not so bad for the US.
That being said, impeachment of a Senator in the US is theoretically possible *if* members of Congress are seen as officers of the United States. There was one Senator who was impeached, however, and that would be Blunt.
JP, I can name TWO senators off the top of my head who do not even care about their constituents or answer to their constituents calls.
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Ieremiac'h Ventrutx
Former Senator of Florencia ~ Citizen of Talossa
Posts: 990
Talossan Since: 3-1-1997
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Post by Ieremiac'h Ventrutx on Mar 5, 2009 21:49:14 GMT -6
JP, I can name TWO senators off the top of my head who do not even care about their constituents or answer to their constituents calls. Ummm ... Kennedy and Clinton? Wait Clinton isn't a Senator anymore ... Reid, thats the ticket. Bottom line, as a senator of Florencia, what matters to me is that a bulk of the people that elected me are happy with my job ... so far so good. If I win friends or not in the Zui I am not should have no bearing on my job as a senator. Now ideally I may want to have good relations there but in reality, I am not accountable to them or their bills... as a matter of fact I would counter that some of them are accountable to ME! And one of those individuals I am very unhappy with at the moment ... hummmm
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2009 21:57:57 GMT -6
JP, I can name TWO senators off the top of my head who do not even care about their constituents or answer to their constituents calls. Ummm ... Kennedy and Clinton? Wait Clinton isn't a Senator anymore ... Reid, thats the ticket. Bottom line, as a senator of Florencia, what matters to me is that a bulk of the people that elected me are happy with my job ... so far so good. If I win friends or not in the Zui I am not should have no bearing on my job as a senator. Now ideally I may want to have good relations there but in reality, I am not accountable to them or their bills... as a matter of fact I would counter that some of them are accountable to ME! And one of those individuals I am very unhappy with at the moment ... hummmm Do not be coy, you knew that I was referring to two senators sitting in the Talossan Senate. You just stated you are accountable to the people who elected you; would you argue that if you suddenly stopped caring about what your constituents think, completely ignore them, and/or otherwise stating that you do not care what they think openly and publicly that you should not be recalled? The role of the Senator in Talossa is a direct voice for the people of that province, we vote for you, not for your party. We should have the right to remove a senator from office who no longer worries or even cares about what the citizens of that province think or feel.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2009 8:20:31 GMT -6
Some grammatical changes have been made.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2009 8:27:30 GMT -6
JP, I can name TWO senators off the top of my head who do not even care about their constituents or answer to their constituents calls. Ummm ... Kennedy and Clinton? Wait Clinton isn't a Senator anymore ... Reid, thats the ticket. Bottom line, as a senator of Florencia, what matters to me is that a bulk of the people that elected me are happy with my job ... so far so good. If I win friends or not in the Zui I am not should have no bearing on my job as a senator. Now ideally I may want to have good relations there but in reality, I am not accountable to them or their bills... as a matter of fact I would counter that some of them are accountable to ME! And one of those individuals I am very unhappy with at the moment ... hummmm The bill does not force you to make friends in the Ziu, it allows each province the ability to recall a Senator pursuant to provincial law. The people of Florencia are happy with your job, mazel tov! But if some of your constituents who hold seats in the Ziu were to propose the "Florencia is the best Province Ever Act" and you voted against it, they might not be too happy after that. Now, with that being said, there are many legal considerations at the provincial level. First, does the Provincial Constitution and/or statutory law allow for the recall of a Senator? If yes, under what conditions and with what further restrictions? If the Province has no Constitution then, according to Article XVII Section 9.... Until such time as the King or Cunstavál proclaims a provincial constitution providing otherwise, a Province's Cunstavál shall serve as Military Governor and may exercise all the powers of the provincial government. So, if the Province has no Constitution, then under the original draft, the Cunstuval could technically initiate the recall of a Senator, which means one person could be doing something despite the will of his/her constituents (the very thing this amendments aims to remedy). SO! Please refer back to the bill which has been amended to prevent that abuse as well.
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Ieremiac'h Ventrutx
Former Senator of Florencia ~ Citizen of Talossa
Posts: 990
Talossan Since: 3-1-1997
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Post by Ieremiac'h Ventrutx on Mar 6, 2009 8:40:18 GMT -6
Great now the opposition has labeled me with yet another title... good job to all members in the opposition! Good show. would you argue that if you suddenly stopped caring about what your constituents think, completely ignore them, and/or otherwise stating that you do not care what they think openly and publicly that you should not be recalled? Sure, they should be accountable, organically to their province, not the Zui. As I have stated above in the thread, some people have "Reasoned" with me rather than just jumped all over me... The role of the Senator in Talossa is a direct voice for the people of that province, we vote for you, not for your party. We should have the right to remove a senator from office who no longer worries or even cares about what the citizens of that province think or feel. Great we agree ... now build a better bill. Or maybe I will have to propose a RUMP version of the same bill... hummm food for thought good thing we have so much time to reason together. JP, el Seneschal del Regipats Talossan a coy, simple minded, affable dictator and tyrant among countless other titles spoken in hushed whispers and stirrings of the loyal opposition.
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Post by Owen Edwards on Mar 6, 2009 9:04:16 GMT -6
I'll just be out with it and think you're an awful human being JP.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Mar 6, 2009 9:09:01 GMT -6
That being said, impeachment of a Senator in the US is theoretically possible *if* members of Congress are seen as officers of the United States. There was one Senator who was impeached, however, and that would be Blunt. U.S. senators probably can't be impeached, but they can be expelled by a 2/3 vote of the Senate. Blount was the first, and several other senators from Confederate states were expelled after the states they represented seceded from the union.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2009 10:39:38 GMT -6
That being said, impeachment of a Senator in the US is theoretically possible *if* members of Congress are seen as officers of the United States. There was one Senator who was impeached, however, and that would be Blunt. U.S. senators probably can't be impeached, but they can be expelled by a 2/3 vote of the Senate. Blount was the first, and several other senators from Confederate states were expelled after the states they represented seceded from the union. This is true. Governors, however, can be recalled in some states. In Talossa, however, our Head of State is appointed and cannot be removed from office by vote. I say this because I just wish to warn those who may be tempted to compare us to the U.S. too much...
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Post by Owen Edwards on Mar 6, 2009 10:41:24 GMT -6
It is a lazy temptation for all of us, I think, to try to compare Talossa to other systems, when it is its OWN system...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2009 10:54:25 GMT -6
For the record, I find myself in support of the current version of this bill.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2009 10:55:25 GMT -6
JP,
I'm not sure why you refuse to read things before you comment on them, but oh well..
I will again state, that this bill does not make Senators accountable to the Ziu. It makes them accountable to their provinces, who may initiate a recall. The vote in the Ziu merely serves as a safeguard so that a provincial government (which may be controlled by 1 person as in the case of Benito) cannot recall a Senator for unfounded reasons.
The idea is simple. The province initiates a recall. The Senator can make one last attempt to save his/her seat by presenting a measure to block the recall. From that vote said Senator must abstain. If the measure passes, the Senator may retain their seat. If the measure fails or ties, the Senator is removed.
JP, people jump on you because you clearly didn't read the legislation since this is the third time you have said this bill makes the Senator accountable to the Ziu and the third time I have explained it. Your statements are not coming across as though you are a gentle statesman but an ignorant fellow who didn't read what he is commenting on.
Go ahead, propose your own bill. I cannot debate you anymore. I don't want to debate you anymore. You have turned Talossa into a despicable cesspool with your ignorance, racism and just downright crappy leadership. In the end what will happen will be Witt will die and you and all of those who reside within the Kingdom's physical boundaries can enjoy your BBQ's together, while the rest of the Kingdom withers. You are a selfish, self-centered individual who reminds me of Winston Churchill sans leadership and results.
Go ahead, run the Kingdom of RUMP and to hell with the other citizens. Propose a bill and pat yourself on the back. But you can feel superior to me because you continue to make the same ridiculous claim about this bill that indicates you didn't read it, and for that, you can credit yourself that you discussed the matter but the boorish opposition merely jumped all over you.
Only the next general election can tell how much more damage you will do before you are stopped.
I urge all of my fellow Members of the Cosa to vote NON and end this reign of terror.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2009 11:15:36 GMT -6
Great now the opposition has labeled me with yet another title... good job to all members in the opposition! Good show. Sure, they should be accountable, organically to their province, not the Zui. As I have stated above in the thread, some people have "Reasoned" with me rather than just jumped all over me... The role of the Senator in Talossa is a direct voice for the people of that province, we vote for you, not for your party. We should have the right to remove a senator from office who no longer worries or even cares about what the citizens of that province think or feel. Great we agree ... now build a better bill. Or maybe I will have to propose a RUMP version of the same bill... hummm food for thought good thing we have so much time to reason together. JP, el Seneschal del Regipats Talossan a coy, simple minded, affable dictator and tyrant among countless other titles spoken in hushed whispers and stirrings of the loyal opposition. JP, I really enjoy how seriously you take people with different opinions. The RUMP is almost becoming synonymous with being narrow minded because of posts like yours. Just as the PP is becoming synonymous with being hot headed. Consider actually reading the bill JP. I eagerly await to see how you twist this around now. ~V
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