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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Feb 5, 2009 8:17:17 GMT -6
There's a much simpler situation. You could have 3 guys: Bush, Gore, and Nader. If together Nader and Gore both get 30% and Bush gets 40% it's not really fair because Bush has not won a majority, as you say, "I do understand how that could possibly be a problem."
Also, it's extremely likely that at least 3 candidates will run for senate--it just happened in Cézembre this past election.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Feb 5, 2009 10:00:22 GMT -6
Owen-
I don't like Haggis. I can't stand the stuff. I refuse to eat it.
Many people do like it. Some eat it quite often. In some countries it's considered a national dish, and is quite the delicacy.
Should I be forced to eat in a restaurant that only serves haggis?
If that's all they serve, and I refuse to eat it, what alternative do you offer?
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What if I'm a chef. I don't like haggis, and I don't make haggis. A new owner comes in, and says I must make haggis, and only haggis. Do I stay and cook haggis? Or do I resign, and move on?
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I'm not threatening anything. I'm explaining a logical series of events that will occur, if an action takes place that I disagree with. I'm not suggesting in the slightest that it should influence anyone's vote because of what will happen with my status.
If people like this type of voting procedure, then by all means, they should vote for it. If enough people vote for it, then it becomes law. I don't have to like it, but I have to accept the fact that it's going to be law. That doesn't mean I have to stay around and be unhappy.
That's the way it works.
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Post by Owen Edwards on Feb 5, 2009 10:26:36 GMT -6
I think I'm more baffled by the idea that this is haggis to you. That a voting procedure that works for many countries and sub-units of countries would cause you to leave this one. That the voting procedure is the most important thing in Talossa. I can understand, to some degree, resigning SoS (I would suggest there's a public service imperative, but at the same time, you serve to some degree at your pleasure, so it's your innate right), but renouncing over this...I mean, SERIOUSLY DUDE.
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Feb 5, 2009 10:49:13 GMT -6
What if Owen, Danihél, Breneir, and Myself were to say we were going to renounce our citizenship were to renounce our citizenship because this bill failed? I would think we were bloody loonies...
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Feb 5, 2009 10:50:39 GMT -6
If I don't like that style of voting, and don't want to use that style of voting, then I won't vote. I have that right to refrain from voting.
If I don't vote in the General Election, then I get removed from the Citizenship rolls.
Why wait 18- 20 months for the inevitable?
I'd rather doff my cap, bid everyone a good day, and take a ship heading east than "strike out".
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Owen, you may like this type of voting. You may think it's the best way to do things, and the most logical. I appreciate your feelings, and understand. You have every right to champion this cause.
I just can't agree with you, based on my feelings. Just like my defense of the OrgLaw , as my defense of the Monarchy, there are some basic tenets that I cannot agree with changing. This is one of them.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Feb 5, 2009 10:55:49 GMT -6
What if Owen, Danihél, Breneir, and Myself were to say we were going to renounce our citizenship were to renounce our citizenship because this bill failed? I would think we were bloody loonies... I would say that it's your right to do so, if you wish. If you don't like the way something is done, you can try and change it. If you can't change it, then you live with it, or you don't. For example- in our Fantasy Base ball League - Hooligan hates the Designated Hitter rule. He can't change it, so he won't live with it. He will not draft any player that is in the AL. I hate the DH rule. I can't change it, but I live with it. I take players from the AL. Now, if the league says, "You MUST take players from the AL , inspite of how you feel about the DH rule" - What would you suggest Hooligan do ? Play with a rule he hates? Or resign from the league?
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Feb 5, 2009 10:56:44 GMT -6
We respect that Mick, but we don't want you to leave on account of it. After all, I'm sure you (like many many people) disliked many of George Bush's policies. But did you leave and renounce your US citizenship because of them? Of course not. This is pretty similar.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2009 11:07:49 GMT -6
We respect that Mick, but we don't want you to leave on account of it. After all, I'm sure you (like many many people) disliked many of George Bush's policies. But did you leave and renounce your US citizenship because of them? Of course not. This is pretty similar. I have the feeling that if it were as easy to leave the U.S. as it would be to leave the Kingdom, there'd have been some takers.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Feb 5, 2009 11:11:46 GMT -6
If his policies (or Dick Cheney's) had been continued by the replacing administration, I would have left Dreu.
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Post by Breneir Itravilatx on Feb 5, 2009 11:27:52 GMT -6
I offer my support to this piece of legislation. Electoral reform should always be under consideration as the inner mechanisms of our democracy are far from perfect. I have always liked IRV.
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Post by Owen Edwards on Feb 5, 2009 12:30:30 GMT -6
I think the comparison to baseball and haggis is misleading, because this is your country you're talking about. And anybody trying to compare to the US is misleading, because this Bill isn't the Iraq War or Obama's stimulus package.
If you'd rather leave because you refuse to vote under this system, it suggests to me your defence of the nation, your love of its people, your service to it, is nowhere near as serious as I'd heretofore believed. I'm not trailing my coat with that comment; I'm just really, really surprised that you find voting under this system so onerous it makes the rest of your citizenship worthless.
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Xhorxh Asmour
Talossan since 02-21-2003
Wot? Me, worry?
Posts: 1,754
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Post by Xhorxh Asmour on Feb 5, 2009 12:36:18 GMT -6
I'm just really, really surprised that you find voting under this system so onerous it makes the rest of your citizenship worthless. Me too. And I favor the IRV system.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Feb 5, 2009 13:06:59 GMT -6
If you can't understand why I feel this way, either you have not read my previous arguments about this kind of voting (both threads) , or you don't understand how a deeply held belief can override one's loyalty to a country.
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Post by Owen Edwards on Feb 5, 2009 16:16:58 GMT -6
So a country's electoral system, when it is one that works adequately in other systems, overrides your interest in its culture or community or, say, foreign policy? This is not the Iraq War. I am beyond appalled at how little you value your countrymen, by defining them by their electoral system.
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Post by Cody Ellsworth on Feb 5, 2009 16:34:51 GMT -6
So a country's electoral system, when it is one that works adequately in other systems, overrides your interest in its culture or community or, say, foreign policy? This is not the Iraq War. I am beyond appalled at how little you value your countrymen, by defining them by their electoral system. I don't think that he's trying to say that he doesn't value his countrymen. I believe he's just frustrated that no one is seeing his points. Try to at least see it from his point of view. He truly believes that this system that we have isn't effective. I'm honestly on the side of keeping things the way they are, although he does make good points. It's just that I also believe that those systems work because they're in a certain area that compliments them well. This nation is not a good place to employ his ideas (that's been said 1,000 times now). I do commend you though, Dréu. In the face of doubt, you kept trying, because you think things need to be changed. As I'm sure Obama ( ) would agree, sometimes change is good.
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