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Post by Eðo Grischun on Feb 4, 2009 15:57:56 GMT -6
I was actually just about to bring up the concept of the protest vote, but the Sanjay argument does that quite well.
Can I ask why the current system is being sought to be changed? Have there been problems with the current method? I ask because I am a true believer of the international rule of 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'.
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Feb 4, 2009 15:58:07 GMT -6
This is impossible in IRV. To win you must have the MAJORITY. That means over 50%.
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Feb 4, 2009 15:58:38 GMT -6
Another Mick! Please read the first "WHEREAS."
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2009 16:08:30 GMT -6
Wouldn't two candidates with similar political views tend to attract similar voters? Or, put another way, wouldn't a single voter tend to favor politicians with similar political stances, rather than several with widely varying stances? That's basically the point of Dréu's American Idol example, unless I'm misunderstanding something. It makes less sense when applied to music, but -- IMHO -- more sense when applied politically.
And as for knowing "for sure" which way the secondary votes "would have been cast," isn't that answered by the fact that IRV is I ("instant") -- the secondary votes are recorded at the same time as the primary votes? There's no second round of voting, just a second round of calculating.
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Feb 4, 2009 16:10:43 GMT -6
The first wheras is a matter of opinion.
Firstly, a lemonade stand will attract more custom if more people know it exists, thus a badly run campaign will hinder a candidates chances, not his place in the political spectrum.
Secondly, people will travel to the other side of the peir if the lemonade tastes better. What this means is if a candidates policy stinks then he won't get the votes.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Feb 4, 2009 16:18:08 GMT -6
Wouldn't two candidates with similar political views tend to attract similar voters? Or, put another way, wouldn't a single voter tend to favor politicians with similar political stances, rather than several with widely varying stances? That's basically the point of Dréu's American Idol example, unless I'm misunderstanding something. It makes less sense when applied to music, but -- IMHO -- more sense when applied politically. What if two candidates are the 99% same, except one is a committed Pro Choice, and the other adamant Pro Life? Would a voter who was very Pro Life, automatically vote for the other candidate? Or would they vote for a 3rd candidate, that is 51% the same, but a fervent Pro Lifer? I wouldn't say instant. You current Secretary of State is not a calculator nor computer. You are adding another layer of voting results to be tabulated, that probably won't change a thing.
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Feb 4, 2009 16:25:27 GMT -6
To extend on the argument against the first WHEREAS;
You mention centre parties have an unfair advantage.
What if the majority of voters prefer left politics? wouldn't that mean the left parties have the advantage. Same goes the other way.
The centre parties would only have an advantage if the majority of voters are centre. Thus, it isn't an UNFAIR advantage.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Feb 4, 2009 16:26:28 GMT -6
And your tie breaker rules must have been lifted from the NFL. When does the coin flip come in ?
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Feb 4, 2009 16:31:17 GMT -6
Would it be in line with Organic Law, or any relevant statutory law, if rather than passing the reforms into law, they be tested prior to becoming a bill?
ie: next scheduled vote is done this way, if it works, then ok, if not then scrap it.
or if it does not go in line with Organic/ Stat Laws, how about a mock election as a trial?
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Feb 4, 2009 16:45:28 GMT -6
I would think if a Province wanted to make a test run, that would be acceptable.
We can't hold a National Election that is binding without changing Org Law.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2009 16:48:00 GMT -6
What if two candidates are the 99% same, except one is a committed Pro Choice, and the other adamant Pro Life? Would a voter who was very Pro Life, automatically vote for the other candidate? Or would they vote for a 3rd candidate, that is 51% the same, but a fervent Pro Lifer? A correct and valid point, but I suspect a statistically small one. Widely disparate elements of an overall belief system are possible, but not likely, as far as I can tell. I wouldn't say instant. You current Secretary of State is not a calculator nor computer. You are adding another layer of voting results to be tabulated, that probably won't change a thing. I think the "instant" part is a bit of a misnomer. If it takes the SOS an extra day of calculating, I'm not too worried about the added delay. Honestly, I can't imagine it taking more than an extra hour, though I admit I've not tallied Talossan votes, so I may be all wet. Either way, the point of my statement wasn't about the time it would take to calculate, but rather the fact that IRV doesn't require another round of vote-casting.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2009 16:49:36 GMT -6
I would think if a Province wanted to make a test run, that would be acceptable. I'd love it. Are there provinces with an active voting group of more than 1 person? (Sort of kidding, and sort of prodding my fellow Ataturkeys who may be watching....)
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Feb 4, 2009 16:50:56 GMT -6
I would think if a Province wanted to make a test run, that would be acceptable. We can't hold a National Election that is binding without changing Org Law. I suspected that would be the case. Was just an idea
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Brad Holmes
Cunstaval to Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Atatürkey, and flying by the seat of my RUMP
Posts: 1,014
Talossan Since: 3-16-2006
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Post by Brad Holmes on Feb 4, 2009 16:51:09 GMT -6
I'm unconvinced the system is in need of overhaul.
Here's one CONTRÂ vote.
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Post by Owen Edwards on Feb 4, 2009 18:07:24 GMT -6
Mick, I'll be your assistant and do the extra day if you'll stop acting like that's possibly the worst idea to hit Talossa.
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