Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Feb 10, 2008 13:17:14 GMT -6
As with all draft acts coming out of my party, the proposal below has undergone rigorous eyeballing by the members of the RUMP mailing list, and the party now believes it is ready for prime-time. This resolution is one that has been groundswelled for as a PD, but I deemed the swollen ground more of a hill than a mountain so we'll go the RZ route, and any nobleman who (we sadly have not heard from in a while, be it in groundswell-joining or not, and who) may be awaiting this amendment will I am sure be okay with waiting just a bit longer. Co-sponsors to the act below will be welcomed from either chamber of the Ziu. The Ruby Slippers Act WHEREAS Talossans are Talossans no matter where they live, and WHEREAS notwithstanding this, Talossans who live in Talossa have a special bond and connection to our homeland, and WHEREAS Talossans who have this special connection cannot really be said to break it by relocating outside our national borders, and WHEREAS it has happened that citizens of longstanding who have this special connection have been, on moving outside the nation, made citizens of provinces to which they never clung while living within the nation, and WHEREAS that doesn't seem right, and WHEREAS no other nation would think to change the provincial citizenship of someone who retains their national citizenship despite moving to a different nation, and WHEREAS the Kingdom of Talossa shouldn't be doing that either, now THEREFORE be it resolved by the Ziu of the Kingdom of Talossa that Talossan Statutory Law 34RZ9 (the People to Provinces Act) is hereby amended by the addition of clause 14, which reads as follows: Pursuant to clause 4a of this act, any person who establishes residency, or who had at any time held residency within the physical boundaries of any province of Talossa shall be entitled to claim citizenship in the province in which he or she most recently resided. Any such person who had been assigned to a different province by any Act of the Ziu may, on submitting a request to the Chancery, be reëstablished as a citizen of the province in which he or she most recently resided. All such assignments and reassignments made under the terms of clause 4a or of this clause shall be made without consideration of the closure status of the province. Noi urent q'estadra sa: Baron Hooligan (MC, RUMP) Dréu Gavárþic'h (MC, LRT) Flip Molinar (MC, LRT)
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Feb 10, 2008 13:19:18 GMT -6
Zooks! Zooks! Zooks! This is wonderful I ask to be put as a co-sponsor of this bill! It has 126.983% of my support
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Flip Molinar
Talossan since 1-1-2008
Proud Talossan
Posts: 1,592
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Post by Flip Molinar on Feb 10, 2008 13:30:15 GMT -6
I also ask that I be added as a cosponsor as well.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Feb 10, 2008 13:50:21 GMT -6
As was brought up in our RUMP vetting, what about: 1. A child is born in the GTA. His family moves to Rhode Island before he is 14. He turns 14, discovers Talossa. He decides that he wants to formally become a Citizen, not a Dandelion. What province is he assigned to?
2. A Mom & Dad are Talossans . Kid is a Cestoûr . The whole lot of them move to R.I before he's 14. When he turns 14, he becomes a Citizen... of what Province?
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Feb 10, 2008 13:54:15 GMT -6
The first is an interesting problem. I'll have to think that one over.
I think that the second would be covered by 35RZ23 Section 3: A dandelion, when registered, will be assigned to the province of his Talossan parent. If both his parents are citizens, and they belong to different provinces, the dandelion will be assigned to the province of his mother.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Feb 10, 2008 13:59:08 GMT -6
I'm sorry, I didn't make # 2 clearer.
The parents originally live in the GTA. The child is born there.
After 13 years , they all pack up the truck, and head to Rhode Island.
When the Dandelion reaches the age of 14, he applies for Citizenship.
What Province does he call home?
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Feb 10, 2008 14:01:19 GMT -6
ahh... hmm... I would have to say the one he lives in in RI
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Feb 10, 2008 14:08:31 GMT -6
Yes, he lives in RI.
But what Talossan Province does he live in? Vuode or Ataturk?
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Feb 10, 2008 14:13:35 GMT -6
I didn't know the province that RI is assigned to so whichever is the one it is assigned to (Atatürk?)
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Feb 10, 2008 14:16:46 GMT -6
(Rhode Island = Ataturk)
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Brad Holmes
Cunstaval to Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Atatürkey, and flying by the seat of my RUMP
Posts: 1,014
Talossan Since: 3-16-2006
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Post by Brad Holmes on Feb 10, 2008 14:19:35 GMT -6
#2 first: Why would the kid not be assigned to the province in which he lived prior to moving to R.I.? I understand that he wasn't a Citizen while living in the GTA, but why wouldn't his provincial assignment reflect his prior GTA residency? Is this act intended to be used retroactively and apply to anyone who can prove GTA residency before or after immigrating?
Wouldn't and are not his parents assigned to their GTA province, and the Dandelion-becoming-citizen assigned to his parents' province? This assumes the parents were Citizens before the move.
I'm also confused about #1. What do you mean "become a Citizen, not a Dandelion"? Are children of Cestours also considered Dandelions? If not, then the kid should be assigned based upon his current geographical location. Unless, like asked above, this act is intended to be applied retroactively.
My #3: If this is to be used retroactively, how many iterations back wards do we go? Let's say somebody has resided in three separate GTA provinces. And let's say that he's applying for citizenship while living in Alaska, but can prove prior GTA residency. To which retro-province is he assigned? The first one, or the most recent, or his favorite? Let's say that he would prefer to forget all GTA provinces, and be assigned his geographical province. Is he allowed to make that distinction?
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Feb 10, 2008 14:25:56 GMT -6
Dang. Maybe I should have someone vette by questions before I submit them...
1. A child is born in the GTA. His family moves to Rhode Island before he is 14. He turns 14, discovers Talossa. He decides that he wants to become a Citizen.
What province is he assigned to?
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Feb 10, 2008 14:26:54 GMT -6
His parents aren't Talossan then right? I would think that maybe he would get to choose.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Feb 10, 2008 14:33:21 GMT -6
Right. His parents aren't Talossan.
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Feb 10, 2008 14:37:36 GMT -6
Just as a point of clarification, I offer the following definitions: - I am a citizen of Florencia, but I do not live in Florencia. I think we need to be more careful saying things like "live in" and "resident of". We who do not physically reside in the GTA are citizens, sure, but we are not residents.
- A Cestour is someone who is a resident (lives in the provinces) but not a citizen.
- A Cybercit is someone who is a citizen but not a resident (does not live in the provinces). Because such a person is not a resident, provincial assignment is made according to the division of the earth specified in the P2P Act.
- An "Old Growther" (we need a new term for this, since persons like Vince Whitacre cannot be considered Old Growth) is someone who is both a resident and a citizen.
- A Dandelion is someone who was born to a citizen, and therefore is also a citizen. (The Broad-Leaf Dandelion Act, being debated elsewhere, would expand the definition to all minor children of citizens, should the parent desire.)
This act is meant to dictate what happens when an Old Growther moves out of the GTA. The act indicates that this person does not become a Cybercit, but retains the same provincial assignment that he or she last held as an Old Growther. My take on the answers to the two questions, then, would be as follows: For #1, the child was a Cestour, but never an Old Growther. When he or she applies for citizenship while living outside Talossa, he will become a Cybercit. While the child lived in the provinces, he held American, but not Talossan, citizenship. So I would say that if he applies for citizenship from Rhode Island, he would be an Atatürkey, even if he lived the first 13 years of his life in Vuode. He can blame his parents for the foolishness of living as Cestours and never becoming Vuodeans. For #2, I think the question is about Talossan (Old Growth) parents who (for some silly reason) do not take advantage of the Broad-Leaf Dandelion Act to give their child the benefit of Talossan citizenship (leaving him or her a poor Cestour), and who then move away from the provinces. The child, reaching the age of 14, applies for citizenship. Again, I would say that the child was only ever a Cestour, never an "Old Growther" (the parents are to blame for this sad condition) and Atatürk is his or her provincial assignment. Note, however, that he or she is also able (through the provisions of The People to Provinces Improvement Act) to choose to be assigned to the province of his or her parents, given their familial relationship. Hooligan
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