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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Jan 27, 2008 7:36:31 GMT -6
WHEREAS in every country in the world that is not a police state you are allowed to move around and,
WHEREAS you may not move from province to province at this current time in Talossa unless you actually pick-up and move to that province's geographic zone, and
WHEREAS we understand that allowing people to move from province to province can be troublesome because one province can have a ton more people than other, and
WHEREAS the author of this bill has no intention of leaving his province, now
THEREFORE, we amend section 4 of 35RZ23 - "The People to Provinces Improvement Act" to read:
"Whenever any Talossan wants to move his provincial assignment to another province he may do so, provided that either a) the province to which he is moving has a lower population than the province from which he is moving, or b) both provinces are currently closed to immigration."
Uréu q'estadra så: Alexandreu Gavárþic'h (LRT-Vuode)
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jan 27, 2008 9:09:15 GMT -6
What is the reasoning behind this ?
How is this move to take place?
Who is to be told?
Who is to approve it?
What happens is a new person comes in that should be assigned to a Province naturally, but comes to find out it is filled with Carpet Baggers?
I don't understand the purpose of this.
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Jan 27, 2008 10:52:14 GMT -6
I think Count Dan is the obvious example. He was born in Vuode, but stuck in M-M. Why shouldn't he be allowed to move?
The original bill (the People to Provinces Improvement Act) says that the SoS takes care of all this.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jan 27, 2008 11:14:50 GMT -6
Stuck in M-M ?
Why do you consider it "Stuck" . Maybe he likes it in M-M ?
If not, shouldn't HE be the one asking for the change?
Is there a great hue in cry of displaced Citizens, "Stuck" in a Province they don't like?
Can people move just anywhere. regardless of thier physical location?
Can I move to the Pengöpäts Antarctic Territory ?
And by what method does the SoS decide to change Provincial residence? Roll of the Dice? Dart Board? Psychic readings?
Is there a method for change?
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Jan 27, 2008 11:20:49 GMT -6
I would guess that the process would be informing the SoS of the change.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jan 27, 2008 11:24:13 GMT -6
I can see the utility of something to address this, but don't quite see what changes are being made clearly. Could the MC quote the amended Act here for us?
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Jan 27, 2008 11:26:05 GMT -6
no problem:
"35 RZ23 - THE PEOPLE TO PROVINCES IMPROVEMENT ACT WHEREAS the People to Provinces Act (34RZ9) has been in effect through the period of the greatest population growth in Talossa’s history, so that we have a pretty good sense of how well it’s working, and
WHEREAS it’s been working pretty well, but could still be improved,
THEREFORE the Ziu hereby enacts the following enhancements and clarifications to the process of assigning citizens to provinces.
DEFINITION: For the purposes of this Act, two people are “closely related” if one of them is 1) the spouse, parent, grandparent, brother, sister, aunt, or uncle of the other, or 2) is married to someone who is closely related to the other (in the sense of clause 1). BE IT ENACTED THAT: If an immigrant is closely related to a Talossan citizen, the immigrant may choose to be assigned to the province to which his Talossan relative belongs, rather than to the province to which he would otherwise be assigned. If one Talossan citizen is closely related to another, he may move his provincial assignment to the province to which his Talossan relative already belongs. But nobody may make such a move more than once in his lifetime, except by the special permission of the Ziu. AND WHEREAS it only makes sense that natural-born citizens belong to the same province as their parents, and in fact we’ve always done it this way, but it isn’t actually written in the law anywhere, BE IT ENACTED THAT A dandelion, when registered, will be assigned to the province of his Talossan parent. If both his parents are citizens, and they belong to different provinces, the dandelion will be assigned to the province of his mother. AND WHEREAS a greater degree of identity between the provinces of Talossa and the world geographic regions assigned to them is to be desired, while maintaining a not-too-terribly-unequal distribution of population among the provinces, BE IT ENACTED THAT Whenever any Talossan wants to move his provincial assignment to the province in whose assigned area he actually lives, he may do so, provided that either a) the province to which he is moving has a lower population than the province from which he is moving, or b) both provinces are currently closed to immigration. The Secretary of State will be responsible for the various moves and assignments contemplated in this Act, which moves and assignments will take effect on their official announcement by the Secretary of State. This Act supplements the People to Provinces Act, and overrides the second sentence of paragraph 3 and all of paragraph 5 of that Act. Uréu q'estadra så: John Woolley, Senator (Florenciâ) and MC (CLP)"
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jan 27, 2008 11:43:19 GMT -6
The proposed amendment to the listed clause of the act would change it from its intended purpose. It is intended to provide the ability for individuals assigned to a province originally to join a province in keeping with their geography, with the intention of facilitating provincial activity. Your amendment would instead open up provincial movement entirely. It would be more properly expressed as an addendum or separate act, rather than the proposed amendment.
I am still also not sure it is necessary or wise, given the questions raised by MC Preston.
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Post by Owen Edwards on Jan 27, 2008 12:27:01 GMT -6
I do think there is a kernel of necessary change here, but it will need to be whittled down to that.
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Jan 27, 2008 12:42:56 GMT -6
Just to add some evidence here -- Count Dan definitely does not like it in M-M, and longs for the ability to return to his original home province. The People to Provinces Act was passed after his move out of the GTA, and he was (I think the term is appropriate) "stuck" in M-M. Some mechanism to help the Count out should definitely be found.
Hooligan
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Jan 27, 2008 12:50:20 GMT -6
Thank you Lord Hooligan. Dan's "plight" was my original reason for writing this bill. It was originally titled the "Bring Dan Home Act" but I then decided that we couldn't make an exception just for him, and that anyone should have this right.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jan 27, 2008 12:53:58 GMT -6
WHEREAS in every country in the world that is not a police state you are allowed to move around and, Yes, by moving around. Which is entirely consistent with your second whereas. That IS the nature of provinces, after all. The basic effect of this bill is to destroy provinces as geographically-based entities and turn them into voluntary interest communities. Which, in my opinion, makes Talossa look less like a nation and more like some Internet club.
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Jan 27, 2008 13:13:29 GMT -6
I have thought of returning Dan to his home province if a Prime Dictate could do the trick. I think this is an excellent subject for discussion. In other nations of the world, Dan being "stuck" would happen and no one would have a problem with it (after all, Dan is no longer a citizen of Wisconsin, but one of Kentucky now, and neither state nor the U.S. government feels a need to restore his Wisconsin citizenship). However, Talossa is a bit different than the U.S., and our people-to-provinces acts are only loosely geographically based (this from a Colorado Florencian who lives within miles of Ataturkeys and Vuodeans due to the province closure conditions at the time of their immigration). We also hold people to their current provincial association after they physically move unless they explicitly request to be reassigned.
Personally, I am not a fan of the province closure law, as (just as in the example I cited above about Colorado Talossans being all over the board) it breaks up logical communities of Talossans. As far as the moving around deal, we (currently, at least) do not do forced reassignments based on physical moves. Unless that is changed, I have always thought that Lord Dan should be entitled to retroactively choose not to be reassigned from his original province, where he grew up and to which he contributed with the sweat of his brow in the early days of our kingdom.
Hooligan
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jan 27, 2008 13:35:26 GMT -6
I think a reasonable law might provide that actual RESIDENCE in a province is more important than mere ASSIGNMENT to a province (by virtue of the People to Provinces law). So that someone who actually resides in Talossan territory retains their original provincial citizenship if they move to territory that just happens to be assigned to another province. If Dan last actually resided in Vuode, that would do it for him.
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Jan 27, 2008 13:44:33 GMT -6
Lord Hooligan:
If you would do a PD to "bring Dan home" I would gladly withdraw this bill.
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