OFFICIAL: The Office of National Names

[kri]

Azul, loyal Talossans!

The use of people's 'real' names has become an increasingly controversial issue in Talossan politics over the last couple of years.

Ián Metáiriâ (a.k.a. JJ) has asked me to replace his German name with his Talossan name on the Talossan Prime Ministers page, and I have complied.

I also received to e-mails from disgruntled ex-Talossans demanding to have their names removed from all our web pages. (My response to them was that I would consider their request once they have removed the word "Talossa" from all their web pages, and they return the "Talossa" domain names to us. I will add to that, that such persons must also cease and desist from using any unauthorized Talossan language words or Talossan terminology.)

Many years ago, in the late 1980s, I was appointed by the Ziu to head the Office of National Names or "ONN". The purpose of the ONN was to coordinate with immigrants so that they could receive, if they chose to use them, Talossan-language names.

It would appear that the need for the ONN is now more than ever. So, I am starting this Witt thread to start a national dialogue on the subject.

Eventually, I hope, this dialogue will result in national legislation governing the use of Talossan-language names to a) promote and extend Talossan national identity, and b) shield and protect loyal Talossan citizens from 'real world' complications. (Naturally, ex-Talossans will have no legal protection from any Talossan legislation, of course.)

My initial thought is to revive the ONN as a constantly active agency, negotiating with each and every prospective to secure a Talossan-language name before they are naturalized. The experience with Tomás Gariçéir is that the earlier that Talossan name is introduced, the less confusion there will be. The transition to Quedéir Castiglhâ was a bit more difficult, because of the delay involved.

So, my idea is to have each immigrant make a MANDATORY decision before naturalization about which name to use publicly, a decision which cannot later be changed. The law would then mandate the use of that name in all Talossan websites and publications. (Such a law, I believe, would be consistent with the Organic Law's guarantee of free speech and press, due to the Organic Law's insistence that civil rights laws be interpreted with Talossan national identity as the uppermost priority.)

It is incredibly complicated and confusing to change people's names in books, websites, and conversation, after having used one version for a decade. Now that the issue is out in the open, hopefully legislation can be drafted that saves us the trouble of doing this for future citizens. A further thought is that the law would provide for current citizens switching to Talossan names, but would require this to be done within some period of time (a month?) following the adoption of the law. (Speak now or for ever hold your peace!) That would fix everybody's names in stone for all time henceforth and forever, worlds without end, amen and amen, etc.

Hopefully, as many of you as possible can become engaged in this dialogue. Let's move Talossa forward through its unique language and identity!

Ben

[gariceir]

KRI said:

I also received to e-mails from disgruntled ex-Talossans demanding to have their names removed from all our web pages.

In the interest of civility, would it not be possible to simply refer to them by the Talossan names they were given when they were citizens?

So, my idea is to have each immigrant make a MANDATORY decision before naturalization about which name to use publicly, a decision which cannot later be changed. The law would then mandate the use of that name in all Talossan websites and publications

Of course, wholeheartedly support reviving the ONN and having a Talossan name assigned to every new citizen at the time of their naturalization. However, I don't like the idea of Talossans being legally forced to choose forever between using their English and Talossan names and never being able to undo that. One should be able to use either or both names as one chooses on any given occasion.

Just my 2¢ RT£59.

[markymark]

I support the revival of the ONN. Each new prospective should be issued a Talossan name, and they would be free to use either their Talossan or non-Talossan name.

I agree with Tomás in that Talossans should not be legally obligated to pick which name they want to go by. As citizens, in my opinion, we are free to go by whatever name we choose. There are numerous circumstances that may arise that would make it desirable for Talossans to switch to their Talossan name.

By the way, what is my Talossan name? (Robert Mark Hamilton)

Thanks!

[dreck]

I make Marky's words mine, and I'd like to know what my Talossan name would be. In Portuguese it's Jorge de Oliveira (Jorge = George - from the Greek word for "farmer", and Oliveira = olive tree). Ben or Tomás, answer my question, please.

[gariceir]

Oi!

Jorge/George is Xhorxh in Talossan. Olive tree is Asmoûr.

Então, seu nome é Xhorxh Asmoûr!

[kri]

>However, I don't like the idea of Talossans being legally forced to choose forever between using their English and Talossan names and never being able to undo that. One should be able to use either or both names as one chooses on any given occasion.

Perhaps I misspoke... the problem is, what if someone uses their English name for years, and then suddenly wants to switch over to their Talossan name--and requests that all web pages, Ar Pats, and any other existing source, be changed to comply with the new desire?

The law I am suggesting would solve this problem. You could use your own name for all purposes, but the law would address issues like Ar Pats, Wittenberg, and other online Talossan venues and pages, and make the new citizen choose "a name" to be known by for all OFFICIAL purposes, which could not be changed.

Ben

[dreck]

Tomás, obrigado pela grande colher de chá. A partir de agora vou ficar usando meu nome talossense, Xhorxh Asmoûr. Mande um e-mail sempre que puder.

[dreck]

This is Jorge de Oliveira (nickname: Dreck). To whom it may concern, from now on I'll be always using my Talossan name. ;D

[Lord Q]

Azul, Xhorxh! Good to have you back on board.

Speaking of nicknames, your Talossan name looks a lot to me like Scorch.

[markymark]

What would my name be in Talossan? (Robert Mark Hamilton) Thanks.

[kri]

>Robert Mark Hamilton

Well, Robert and Mark are Rôibeard and Márcüs. As for "Hamilton", do you have a translation into modern English for what it literally means? That is normally how we do last names in Talossan. Once you find that out, I can do a translation.

Ben

[Xhorxh Asmour]

According to the Penguin Dictionary of Surnames, HAMILTON comes from old English "hamel" or "hamble". meaning "maimed, crooked, cut off" + "tun" = hill.

[gariceir]

"Crooked hill"! That's brilliant! I will look it up as soon as I get home.

In response to Ben's post: perhaps I misunderstood you -- it read to me as though you were proposing legislation for a mandatory choice of name period, not just for official purposes. Although even for the latter, while I do think citizens should choose one or the other at the time of their naturalization, I don't like the idea of a legally mandatory, undoable choice. However, people should be aware that it's not an easy thing if they decide to change it down the line. It's unreasonable to expect authors to republish entire books with every instance of their name changed, that sort of thing. But something reasonable, such as changing one or two web pages, for example, should be up to the discretion of the author of the pages.

[seahobbit]

KRI said:

Perhaps I misspoke... the problem is, what if someone uses their English name for years, and then suddenly wants to switch over to their Talossan name--and requests that all web pages, Ar Pats, and any other existing source, be changed to comply with the new desire?

I have to agree that Talossan should have tohe right to use whichever name they want. This could be changed on request for the web pages that are "current". But just like in real life when someone change their names, newpapers don't go over old issues to change the names. As such, anyone that decides to use their real name to start, should expect the use and record of their name in historical records such as Ár Päts or historical websites. I am with Ben on this, if your name was so and so when you were Talossan, historical records should reflect that, otherwise our history would become too confusing.

Marc Moisan, C.D.

[seahobbit]

Tomás said:

In response to Ben's post: perhaps I misunderstood you -- it read to me as though you were proposing legislation for a mandatory choice of name period, not just for official purposes. Although even for the latter, while I do think citizens should choose one or the other at the time of their naturalization, I don't like the idea of a legally mandatory, undoable choice. However, people should be aware that it's not an easy thing if they decide to change it down the line. It's unreasonable to expect authors to republish entire books with every instance of their name changed, that sort of thing. But something reasonable, such as changing one or two web pages, for example, should be up to the discretion of the author of the pages.

I agree 100% with Tomás, historical records should stay as is, and when someone decides to use their Talossan name (or revert back) they should be known as such from then on.

Marc Moisan, C.D.