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Post by Eðo Grischun on Dec 16, 2019 17:54:37 GMT -6
There was a time, long long ago, when a prospective citizen had to submit a copy of something like a driver's license or other government-issued ID. We gradually got much less strict about documentation and checking identities, until ESB's enormous immigration-and-election fraud became possible. The Immigration Ministry, I think, should be diligent about certifying people as actually being who they claim to be ... for which purpose a postal address might be very useful. — John R We're working on it. I'm confident reforms will pass the Ziu this coming term. The exact nature of those reforms are being battered out right now.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Dec 16, 2019 19:53:08 GMT -6
Ha ha, the Cort has indicated in which direction it is going, at lightning speed, and the official reaction of the Government is: This aggressive assault on common sense only re-inforces the need for the Pete Townshend Act.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Dec 16, 2019 19:54:08 GMT -6
No, which is why we could never actually force people to change provinces when they change catchment areas (since they are under no obligation to inform the Chancery of their move in the first place). Surely this is what the Census should be picking up! Even more reason for reforms to make sure everyone answers the Census to keep their contact details and physical residency up to date.
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Dec 16, 2019 22:02:51 GMT -6
I'm not sure Talossa has any business having my street level address.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Dec 16, 2019 22:25:13 GMT -6
I'm not sure Talossa has any business having my street level address. And Seb didn't think Talossa had any business having his "street" name - yet gave us his address, at least to set up our new webhosting. At some point we have to decide on a level of trust required between nation and immigrant.
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Post by E.S. Bornatfiglheu on Dec 17, 2019 14:17:38 GMT -6
I'm not sure Talossa has any business having my street level address. And Seb didn't think Talossa had any business having his "street" name - yet gave us his address, at least to set up our new webhosting. At some point we have to decide on a level of trust required between nation and immigrant. I'm not sure that should include physical address. Contemporary macrostates have a vested interest in knowing your physical location due to the exercise of sovereignty over the space. They need to know where to send the tax bill. They need to know where you are in order to exercise force over you if needed.
But Talossa doesn't need that information since Talossa doesn't exercise territorial sovereignty. Even if land claims were legitimate, the majority of citizens would still live outside Talossa's territorial mandate.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Dec 17, 2019 14:43:41 GMT -6
If you don't think the Government has any business knowing where you live, then the current system of Provincial Assignment needs to be chucked out as simply inoperable. Which is of course something which is aligned with NPW policy.
(Parenthetically, do you think Talossa has any business knowing anything about you at all? Seeing as you think Guy Incognito aka Sevastáin Pinatsch did nothing wrong?)
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Post by E.S. Bornatfiglheu on Dec 17, 2019 15:03:41 GMT -6
If you don't think the Government has any business knowing where you live, then the current system of Provincial Assignment needs to be chucked out as simply inoperable. Which is of course something which is aligned with NPW policy. (Parenthetically, do you think Talossa has any business knowing anything about you at all? Seeing as you think Guy Incognito aka Sevastáin Pinatsch did nothing wrong?) To the Parenthetical: Not a lot, in my opinion. But then, I've been called at home and threatened. So there's that.
The thing in the case re: S:reu Pinatsch is that a name was provided. Further, it stayed consistent and wasn't used for nefarious purposes. It was a stable identifier that filled every purpose of a "legal name" for all Talossan purposes. I really find myself agreeing with the UC in their reasoning in this case. Common sense and the law are often mutually exclusive.
That being said. There is often correlation between how paranoid a person is about their Talossan name and how much of a shitheel they act. But trying to control for this is social engineering via the law. Not a great idea.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Dec 17, 2019 17:00:42 GMT -6
He lied on his immigration application, breaking the law. He provided a false name when asked for his name. He got caught.
This is pretty simple.
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Açafat del Val
Citizen of Talossa
Posts: 112
Talossan Since: 10-15-2017
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Post by Açafat del Val on Dec 17, 2019 18:11:55 GMT -6
He lied on his immigration application, breaking the law. He provided a false name when asked for his name. He got caught. This is pretty simple. Apparently not so simple for the Cort.
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Post by Viteu Marcianüs on Dec 17, 2019 21:23:08 GMT -6
Ian's decision is results oriented, focusing more on the outcome than the law. I imagine he thinks he's serving justice, but what he's doing is mooting criminal law and overstepping the Court's authority. I strongly encourage him to reconsider. He enjoys some discretion but this is actual judicial activism on steroids.
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Post by Sevastáin Pinátsch on Dec 17, 2019 21:27:38 GMT -6
It's really sad to be living in a world with thousands of liars.
Freddie Mercury made a bunch of albums under a false name. Mark Twain wrote a bunch of books under a false name. And Banksy... what a lying jerk. Filling the world with art. Who the hell is she? He?
bell hooks. Garry Kasparov. Titian. Peyo. Ayn Rand. Elizabeth Arden. Bernard Shakey. El Greco. John le Carré. Voltaire.
And then there's Yusuf Islam, or Cat Stevens, or Stephen Georgiou, or whoever he really is under his multiple identities.
Creeps. The world would've been better off without them and their fraudulent contributions.
Oh, and Dr. Seuss. Nefariousness at its worst. Messing with the minds of children.
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Post by Viteu Marcianüs on Dec 17, 2019 21:48:31 GMT -6
It's really sad to be living in a world with thousands of liars. Freddie Mercury made a bunch of albums under a false name. Mark Twain wrote a bunch of books under a false name. And Banksy... what a lying jerk. Filling the world with art. Who the hell is she? He? bell hooks. Garry Kasparov. Titian. Peyo. Ayn Rand. Elizabeth Arden. Bernard Shakey. El Greco. John le Carré. Voltaire. And then there's Yusuf Islam, or Cat Stevens, or Stephen Georgiou, or whoever he really is under his multiple identities. Creeps. The world would've been better off without them and their fraudulent contributions. Oh, and Dr. Seuss. Nefariousness at its worst. Messing with the minds of children. I didnt realize we had such an extensive list of Talossans going all the way back to Voltaire. Wow. But really, did Dr. Seuss apply for immigration to another country using his pen name? Here's the reality-our law is pretty clear that you must provide your real name on the citizenship application. You decided not to. No matter how you want to spin that, you lied and broke Talossan law. You're ostensibly lucking out with a judge who doesn't care about the plain text of the law. So fantastic job at breaking Talossan law and then rendering our law absolutely meaningless. All of your good work for Talossa has culminated in you establishing that a judge can legislate from the bench in Talossa. THANKS
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Dec 17, 2019 22:00:37 GMT -6
None of Farroukh Bulsara, Samuel Clemens and Theodore Geisel neither attempted to immigrate to a new country under their stage names, nor gave any government to believe that Freddie Mercury, Mark Twain or Dr. Seuss were their real names. Gary Numan no doubt told US immigration that his real surname is "Webb" when he moved there a couple of years ago.
The thing about a stage name is one's real name is common knowledge, and you answer to that name to authority.
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Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN
Puisne Justice; Chancellor of the Royal Talossan Bar; Cunstaval to Florencia
Dame & Former Seneschal
Posts: 1,157
Talossan Since: 4-5-2010
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN on Dec 17, 2019 22:03:31 GMT -6
It's really sad to be living in a world with thousands of liars. Freddie Mercury made a bunch of albums under a false name. Mark Twain wrote a bunch of books under a false name. And Banksy... what a lying jerk. Filling the world with art. Who the hell is she? He? bell hooks. Garry Kasparov. Titian. Peyo. Ayn Rand. Elizabeth Arden. Bernard Shakey. El Greco. John le Carré. Voltaire. And then there's Yusuf Islam, or Cat Stevens, or Stephen Georgiou, or whoever he really is under his multiple identities. Creeps. The world would've been better off without them and their fraudulent contributions. Oh, and Dr. Seuss. Nefariousness at its worst. Messing with the minds of children. There's a difference between pen names/trade names/pseudonym/stage names etc..., which most of the above are and legal names. Persons can only have ONE legal name (that legal name can change) at any given time. One cannot hold 2,3 or more legal names simultaneously. For example, if one were to try and obtain a passport with anything other than his/her legal name they will run into trouble. I simply cannot create an alias whilst maintaining and a separate legal identity. I have to pick one legal name and renounce the other. An example is that U2's Bono's passport and legal documents will have his legal name as Paul David Hewson and not 'Bono', similarly, Reginald Kenneth Dwight changed his name to Elton Hercules John, thus his passport will no longer say Reginald Kenneth Dwight. In short, unless you can apply to have said name on your passport, then it probably isn't a legal name.
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