Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
Posts: 1,401
Talossan Since: 9-27-2010
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Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on Apr 2, 2019 15:57:51 GMT -6
While I definitely am one of the people who think that tone is often just as important as content in written communication, and one of those often put off by unwarranted aggression, I must say that I have found the balance between boring politeness and offensive aggression extremely difficult to strike. If there is no tension, everything gets boring and people drift away. The Kingdom was heading that way before Reunision. If there are rows and fighting and people behaving like jerks, people leave because of that. The real trick is to use aggressive politeness. We are taught that here (in the UK) as children. And we're very good at it - even if some of you are not.
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Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN
Puisne Justice; Chancellor of the Royal Talossan Bar; Cunstaval to Florencia
Dame & Former Seneschal
Posts: 1,157
Talossan Since: 4-5-2010
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN on Apr 2, 2019 16:42:08 GMT -6
I haven't heard anyone say "I'm not going to vote, because Talossa has become unpleasant." I've heard quite a few say, in various ways, that they just aren't interested in Talossa any more, and attributed their uninterest to (what they perceive as) a generally unpleasant atmosphere. It's not fun, there's no joy, it's a total drag, why would I want to participate in *that*, I don't want my kids exposed to that kind of thing, and so on. These folks aren't necessarily "sensitive souls", but rather people who enjoy friendship, bantering, and a range of happy personal interactions that (they say) used to be possible and even easy here, and have become difficult and maybe impossible. I don't think it has much to do with any party's electoral success or lack of it. I think it has a lot to do with the tone we use with each other. — John R I agree completely with all of the above. Citizens (present and former) who've I've talked to from across the political divide have remarked that the atmosphere in Talossa has taken a turn towards the unpleasant. This was also agreed by most, again from various points on the political spectrum, on the live chat show last night. Finding positive feedback on life in Talossa these days - is like finding hen's teeth. Sensitive souls they may be, but they like the rest of us have a right to a peaceful enjoyment of Talossa and we all have a responsibility to respect that right. I would encourage the incoming government to set up an independently run survey to anonymously gauge people's opinions on the above and present the findings of that report.
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Post by Viteu Marcianüs on Apr 2, 2019 16:50:10 GMT -6
Funny, those above would excuse AD's defamatory attacks because he makes them with a smile. The hypocrisy is noted. I find fakeness to be an insult to my nature. If you find that troublesome, you needn't interact with me. It is that simple.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Apr 2, 2019 16:59:42 GMT -6
If there is anyone reading this who can't understand why many of us choke on the King and Sir Alexandreu lecturing us about how Talossa has become "unpleasant and unhappy" without taking one shred of responsibility; or showing one shred of self-awareness that they may have contributed to this state of affairs in any way, then, in the immortal words of William "Flavor Flav" Drayton, I can't do nuttin' for ya, man. Some people no doubt found Talossa more "happy and pleasant" when the conservative-Monarchist party had an unassailable absolute majority and the King never had to use his veto because the Ziu never did anything he didn't approve of. I'm sorry to announce -- actually, I'm not sorry at all -- that those days are gone. There is now a clear majority for democratic change in Talossa. Those same people expressed no concern at all when I personally had to take six months off Talossa after a gruelling legal battle to defend democracy in OrgLaw amendments against the King's veto, during which Sir Alexandreu personally defamed me and then justice Nordselva as corrupt. Those same people have also shown no concern at all about more recent defamation against now-Senator Marcianüs, as he complains above. Is unpleasantness only unpleasant when our political enemies do it? If the King is serious about lessening bad feeling in Talossa, how about an end to "surprise vetoes"? How about a pledge that, should the incoming Ziu bring forward a bill which he disagrees with, he should let us all know well in advance, so as not to waste all our time and effort passing something that will just be chucked in the bin? I've never seen any acknowledgement about what an annoying thing that is.
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Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN
Puisne Justice; Chancellor of the Royal Talossan Bar; Cunstaval to Florencia
Dame & Former Seneschal
Posts: 1,157
Talossan Since: 4-5-2010
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN on Apr 2, 2019 17:11:34 GMT -6
Funny, those above would excuse AD's defamatory attacks because he makes them with a smile. The hypocrisy is noted. I find fakeness to be an insult to my nature. If you find that troublesome, you needn't interact with me. It is that simple. If I am included in this, I want to be clear, I'm not excusing anyone's behaviour - defamatory attacks made with or without a smile are not acceptable and I will not support them, in any way, shape or form. I personally have no problem with the way you express yourself. I would rather people be their true selves than a watered down version. The point I am making is that there is a very genuinely held opinion by a sizeable amount of citizens that there is a "unpleasant" air about Talossa at the moment. I am not laying the blame at anyone's door, nor am suggesting reasons to why they hold this opinion. What I am suggesting is that this opinion is at least acknowledged (rather than quickly dismissed) and investigated (by a (anonymous) survey, poll etc...)- if it is unfounded then no problem, if it is founded then we can consider next steps.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Apr 2, 2019 21:26:28 GMT -6
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Apr 2, 2019 21:28:53 GMT -6
I’m glad I was able to give “Other” one of its best results yet
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Apr 2, 2019 22:04:06 GMT -6
I’m glad I was able to give “Other” one of its best results yet In my graph, "Other" just means "parties which (so far) have only fought one election". If the AMP is still around next time, you get your very own line and colour!
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Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on Apr 3, 2019 1:12:41 GMT -6
While I definitely am one of the people who think that tone is often just as important as content in written communication, and one of those often put off by unwarranted aggression, I must say that I have found the balance between boring politeness and offensive aggression extremely difficult to strike. If there is no tension, everything gets boring and people drift away. The Kingdom was heading that way before Reunision. If there are rows and fighting and people behaving like jerks, people leave because of that. The real trick is to use aggressive politeness. We are taught that here (in the UK) as children. And we're very good at it - even if some of you are not. So we need to chuck all non-UK citizens?
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Amada Merþedes
Citizen of Talossa
Dead-Talossan-Name: Alexandreu Regeu
Posts: 249
Talossan Since: 26th of March, 2019
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Post by Amada Merþedes on Apr 3, 2019 2:45:49 GMT -6
The real trick is to use aggressive politeness. We are taught that here (in the UK) as children. And we're very good at it - even if some of you are not. So we need to chuck all non-UK citizens? Nope. However I’d like to remind you not all UK citizens are good at it, I’ll admit I am terrible at it, and I’m sure there will be some people who are good at it outside the uk.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Apr 3, 2019 6:24:33 GMT -6
Funny, those above would excuse AD's defamatory attacks because he makes them with a smile. The hypocrisy is noted. I find fakeness to be an insult to my nature. If you find that troublesome, you needn't interact with me. It is that simple. If I am included in this, I want to be clear, I'm not excusing anyone's behaviour - defamatory attacks made with or without a smile are not acceptable and I will not support them, in any way, shape or form. I personally have no problem with the way you express yourself. I would rather people be their true selves than a watered down version. The point I am making is that there is a very genuinely held opinion by a sizeable amount of citizens that there is a "unpleasant" air about Talossa at the moment. I am not laying the blame at anyone's door, nor am suggesting reasons to why they hold this opinion. What I am suggesting is that this opinion is at least acknowledged (rather than quickly dismissed) and investigated (by a (anonymous) survey, poll etc...)- if it is unfounded then no problem, if it is founded then we can consider next steps. 100%. There is a serious problem, and we've just seen pretty sharp evidence of it. If folks think it's just imagination, then we should do something to find out. Gluc did the only well-conducted, serious survey of Talossans... we should commission him with a small fee to do another one on the general public feeling. It is incredibly important -- by a wide margin, this should be the most important issue, and we need to know the real truth. Miestra doesn't think Talossa is fun... how many other people agree? What is making them stay away? It's easy and comfortable to pretend that inconvenient problems do not exist. But it's irresponsible. Let's find out the truth.
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Post by Gödafrïeu Válcadác’h on Apr 3, 2019 21:00:17 GMT -6
...If the King is serious about lessening bad feeling in Talossa, how about an end to "surprise vetoes"? How about a pledge that, should the incoming Ziu bring forward a bill which he disagrees with, he should let us all know well in advance, so as not to waste all our time and effort passing something that will just be chucked in the bin? I've never seen any acknowledgement about what an annoying thing that is. 100% agreement on all of this. John, when you see something bad in a bill, say something. Ambush-vetoes don't work in Talossa. As I have said before, I support your being public in advising, warning, and all of that.
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Post by Gödafrïeu Válcadác’h on Apr 7, 2019 5:40:02 GMT -6
If I am included in this, I want to be clear, I'm not excusing anyone's behaviour - defamatory attacks made with or without a smile are not acceptable and I will not support them, in any way, shape or form. I personally have no problem with the way you express yourself. I would rather people be their true selves than a watered down version. The point I am making is that there is a very genuinely held opinion by a sizeable amount of citizens that there is a "unpleasant" air about Talossa at the moment. I am not laying the blame at anyone's door, nor am suggesting reasons to why they hold this opinion. What I am suggesting is that this opinion is at least acknowledged (rather than quickly dismissed) and investigated (by a (anonymous) survey, poll etc...)- if it is unfounded then no problem, if it is founded then we can consider next steps. 100%. There is a serious problem, and we've just seen pretty sharp evidence of it. If folks think it's just imagination, then we should do something to find out. Gluc did the only well-conducted, serious survey of Talossans... we should commission him with a small fee to do another one on the general public feeling. It is incredibly important -- by a wide margin, this should be the most important issue, and we need to know the real truth. Miestra doesn't think Talossa is fun... how many other people agree? What is making them stay away? It's easy and comfortable to pretend that inconvenient problems do not exist. But it's irresponsible. Let's find out the truth. Alexander, you and I know this mistrust between you and others goes back to the 'Betrayed, Stolen, Kept days'. I could wax on and off about that here, but I think you know what I'm talking about. It lies at the root and heart of today's Talossan politics: the fight for Talossa's soul that began in August 2005 between Colorado and the Republic. :-O To be clear, while I was more than a little disappointed in your take on certain things, I have never held any animosity toward you, and I appreciate very much the fact we have always gotten along and worked well together. I have always appreciated your enthusiasm for Talossa and the work you have put into our little country. What is clear to me is something has not yet happened that really should: a knock-down-drag-out between you and certain other Talossans that would hopefully clear the air somewhat. This needs to happen.
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Post by Gödafrïeu Válcadác’h on Apr 7, 2019 5:49:33 GMT -6
Electoral Commission, where are you on certifying the results? I'd like to get everything scribed and archived this coming week. Thanks, all! - GV, Scribe, etc.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Apr 7, 2019 6:34:27 GMT -6
100%. There is a serious problem, and we've just seen pretty sharp evidence of it. If folks think it's just imagination, then we should do something to find out. Gluc did the only well-conducted, serious survey of Talossans... we should commission him with a small fee to do another one on the general public feeling. It is incredibly important -- by a wide margin, this should be the most important issue, and we need to know the real truth. Miestra doesn't think Talossa is fun... how many other people agree? What is making them stay away? It's easy and comfortable to pretend that inconvenient problems do not exist. But it's irresponsible. Let's find out the truth. Alexander, you and I know this mistrust between you and others goes back to the 'Betrayed, Stolen, Kept days'. I could wax on and off about that here, but I think you know what I'm talking about. It lies at the root and heart of today's Talossan politics: the fight for Talossa's soul that began in August 2005 between Colorado and the Republic. :-O To be clear, while I was more than a little disappointed in your take on certain things, I have never held any animosity toward you, and I appreciate very much the fact we have always gotten along and worked well together. I have always appreciated your enthusiasm for Talossa and the work you have put into our little country. What is clear to me is something has not yet happened that really should: a knock-down-drag-out between you and certain other Talossans that would hopefully clear the air somewhat. This needs to happen. I actually don't know that much of this is true at this point. You are the only one who brings up grudges from that time anymore. It seems like you do so about every 6 months to a year, so clearly it has been bothering you quite a bit for a very long time. talossa.proboards.com/thread/12736/final-thoughts-talossan-partisan-politicsIf you would like to talk about it and think it would be helpful, I would be happy to do so. You are always pleasant and forthright, so even though this is contentious, I think we could definitely chat about it in good humor.
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