King John
King of Talossa
Posts: 2,415
Talossan Since: 5-7-2005
Knight Since: 11-30-2005
Motto: COR UNUM
King Since: 3-14-2007
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Post by King John on Apr 15, 2019 15:12:42 GMT -6
My apologies to everyone, and especially to the Seneschal-elect, if my alas customary slowness (or call it caution) has raised any fears I might do something to subvert the recent election. I don't think I *could* subvert it, even if I wanted to; and I don't want to.
— John R
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Apr 15, 2019 16:37:09 GMT -6
My apologies to everyone, and especially to the Seneschal-elect, Accepted; you must forgive my "customary" suspiciousness! This is off topic, sir, but the former King claimed precisely that power. In 1998-9 he stated that he would never name a member of the Liberal Party to the Seneschálsqab even if they won an absolute majority in the Cosa. Most of the Liberal Party renounced their citizenship upon hearing that.
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Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on Apr 16, 2019 4:51:34 GMT -6
A few points, though:
1) John has already appointed a FreeDem Seneschal four years ago, and has never expressed any kind of reservation in appointing Seneschals beyond making sure that they have the required 101 Cosa seats;
2) Whichever the winning party, final talks have always been held only after the elections were certified - so I do believe that we're good to go now regarding the appointment a new functioning Government, but I don't think John can be faulted for not having acted yet.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Apr 16, 2019 15:33:33 GMT -6
Anyway, back on topic.
After consultation within the Cabinet, the Government is minded to support this new bill, although I would personally like it to be renamed the "Wittenberg XIII" bill, to clarify what is actually happening. One other caveat is that the Minister of STUFF wants to change Talossa's state webhosting arrangements (which are currently stupidly expensive) before the Chancery sets up Witt-XIII on the new host.
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Post by Sevastáin Pinátsch on Apr 17, 2019 4:50:32 GMT -6
One other caveat is that the Minister of STUFF wants to change Talossa's state webhosting arrangements (which are currently stupidly expensive) before the Chancery sets up Witt-XIII on the new host. I should add that the choice to pay at all is also something to consider. The hosting company I use is explicit that I'm free to share my plan with as many friends as I'd like:
I've put this to the test. I've already been doing it for years, mostly to support friends starting businesses (because it can be stupidly expensive).
To keep things "official" and separate, we could pay for the same plan I already have ($6 US/month for unlimited domains, unlimited traffic, unlimited space).
But you're free to live off my plan.
If there absolutely has to be some kind of token exchange, I'm OK with one 5 Louis coin per year. Nice souvenirs for me and the kids.
I'd rather we use the money we save on hosting to creating and funding more of these kinds of items.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on May 4, 2019 13:37:53 GMT -6
The Witt Moderation Act Whereas a lot of Talossa-doing happens on Witt, and it is often the public face of our country, and
Whereas Witt is an internet forum, and while Talossans are the most extraordinary people on the Earth, sometimes things can get out of hand, and we do need a small group of people empowered to bring it back in hand, and
Whereas it remains private property, and so the best path forward is one that is cooperative and pragmatic, and
Whereas it's probably no longer a good idea to split up the increasingly-quiet Witt into other boards, and
Whereas basically we just want pretty obvious and common-sense moderation, but done under the rule of lawTherefore the Ziu hereby deletes Title J of el Lexhatx in its entirety, replacing it with the following: 1. The Chancery shall be responsible for providing an official internet message board or forum for the express use of Household, Government, or provincial business. The Secretary of State or their designated representative within the Chancery shall make all reasonable effort to maintain and make available this board for all offices of the Household, Government, or provinces that so request. The Secretary of State shall have ultimate discretion in the question of infrastructure, although he is highly advised to take the wishes of officials into account in their decisionmaking. Other boards shall be provided for socialization at the discretion of the Secretary of State or their designated representative. 2. Each officeholder or head of agency shall be responsible for monitoring any boards provided for their use, and reporting any problems to the Chancery as needed. The Secretary of State or their designated representative(s) shall act to maintain a minimum level of acceptable behavior on these boards when such action is requested whensoever their own judgment directs that it is necessary. This behavior is not defined in specifics, but shall include generally treating others in a manner that respects Talossa as a community. 3. This board shall include the necessary infrastructure to allow the Ziu to fulfill its functions, including proposing, debating, and considering bills and the posing of Terpelaziuns. This board will also provide a place for citizens to register their votes in elections. This board shall be known as "Wittenberg," and it will be considered the property of the nation as a whole. Since there appears to be some uncertainty, this is just a note that this is the version of this bill that was Clarked. Eðo Grischun, I think you were under the impression I Clarked the original version? Just some clarification.
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Post by Eðo Grischun on May 4, 2019 18:29:02 GMT -6
The Witt Moderation Act Whereas a lot of Talossa-doing happens on Witt, and it is often the public face of our country, and
Whereas Witt is an internet forum, and while Talossans are the most extraordinary people on the Earth, sometimes things can get out of hand, and we do need a small group of people empowered to bring it back in hand, and
Whereas it remains private property, and so the best path forward is one that is cooperative and pragmatic, and
Whereas it's probably no longer a good idea to split up the increasingly-quiet Witt into other boards, and
Whereas basically we just want pretty obvious and common-sense moderation, but done under the rule of lawTherefore the Ziu hereby deletes Title J of el Lexhatx in its entirety, replacing it with the following: 1. The Chancery shall be responsible for providing an official internet message board or forum for the express use of Household, Government, or provincial business. The Secretary of State or their designated representative within the Chancery shall make all reasonable effort to maintain and make available this board for all offices of the Household, Government, or provinces that so request. The Secretary of State shall have ultimate discretion in the question of infrastructure, although he is highly advised to take the wishes of officials into account in their decisionmaking. Other boards shall be provided for socialization at the discretion of the Secretary of State or their designated representative. 2. Each officeholder or head of agency shall be responsible for monitoring any boards provided for their use, and reporting any problems to the Chancery as needed. The Secretary of State or their designated representative(s) shall act to maintain a minimum level of acceptable behavior on these boards when such action is requested whensoever their own judgment directs that it is necessary. This behavior is not defined in specifics, but shall include generally treating others in a manner that respects Talossa as a community. 3. This board shall include the necessary infrastructure to allow the Ziu to fulfill its functions, including proposing, debating, and considering bills and the posing of Terpelaziuns. This board will also provide a place for citizens to register their votes in elections. This board shall be known as "Wittenberg," and it will be considered the property of the nation as a whole. Since there appears to be some uncertainty, this is just a note that this is the version of this bill that was Clarked. Eðo Grischun, I think you were under the impression I Clarked the original version? Just some clarification. *Facepalm*. When I was casting my votes last night I quickly opened the Hopper thread for a final reading. I should have read through the thread for updates. In fact, an even crazier idea might have been to have gone to the bother of reading the Clark that Gluc published. I'm going to leave my vote as con, along with the con I cast against my own bill. I'm willing to wait this out and see if the new government can get all this stuff fixed with their plan for a new Witt. I'll be happy as long as Telecommuna gets the axe and we move forward with a plan that involves one forum.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on May 4, 2019 18:47:05 GMT -6
No worries! And if you think my plan is a bad idea on its own merits, that's cool, too I do not take good-faith voting personally, ever.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on May 14, 2019 15:54:22 GMT -6
Okay. The Minister of STUFF has made his proposal for moving forward with the webhosting issue, therefore I think it's relevant to revisit this bill.
The issue is that I would quite frankly be happy to vote for this bill, with the following amendments, which could be posed on the next Clark:
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on May 14, 2019 18:00:25 GMT -6
I'm not accepting that name out of respect for GV's vehement opposition (since the new Witt need not have an official number at all if it will smooth things over). Instead, I picked a new name. If you don't accept it, let me know. I have also fixed some of the minor style points (it's Lexhatx with no accent, even if that makes it irregular; the article isn't capitalized since it's intended to integrate some small part of our language's use, not be an artifact; you can abbreviate it as "Lex" before the numbered provision to which you're referring; and emphasis-based revision is hard to archive). I accepted all of your whereas changes. I have removed the transitory fourth provision you added to the new Title J, because there's no need for it and we'd just have to remove it later. I've provisionally included Lex.D.2.10.3, but I'm unsure about it. It seems unnecessarily specific and awkward to me, and I think it would bind MinStuff into more than you intend. May I suggest this simpler and more flexible alternative language? The Ministry of Stuff shall be responsible for managing and making available the content of the publicly-readable Internet presence of the Kingdom, excluding those websites under the jurisdiction of other entities of the Kingdom as described elsewhere in el Lexhatx. As far as I can tell, this would achieve everything you want. The Wittenberg Transition Act Whereas a series of forums owned by private individuals, going by the generic name of "Wittenberg", have been one of the central forums of Talossanity since 1997, and whereas "Witt" is often the public face of our country, and
Whereas Witt is an internet forum, and while Talossans are the most extraordinary people on the Earth, sometimes things can get out of hand, and we do need a small group of people empowered to bring it back in hand, and
Whereas it's probably no longer a good idea to split up the increasingly-quiet Witt into other boards, and
Whereas basically we just want pretty obvious and common-sense moderation, but done under the rule of law, and whereas el Lexhatx makes common reference to Wittenberg, but nowhere defines what it actually is,THEREFORE the Ziu hereby deletes Title J of el Lexhatx in its entirety, replacing it with the following: FURTHERMORE, Lex.D.2.10.3 shall be amended to read as below:
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on May 14, 2019 19:12:33 GMT -6
I'm not accepting that name out of respect for GV's vehement opposition It's not something I'm willing to fight over. I have little patience for superstition, that's all (unless it's Talossan superstition, eg. re: the number 59). Really? Because El Lex has a dozen or more references to "Witt" or "Wittenberg". Right now there is no definition of what that is, just the "default" that it's this forum. If this law is enacted, then "Wittenberg" means the new forum, but I don't know MinSTUFF's time-frame for getting that operative. I can foresee a world of trouble if there's a gap between passing this law and getting New-Witt open; or if there's a period of time when we're using both Witts. What I want is for Wittenberg to be operating in the same "official webspace" as covered by the MinStuff's legislative remit, i.e. hosted on talossa.com, although still under Chancery supervision. I.e. MinSTUFF already has a "trial Witt" up and running, and it would be most efficient if he and the SoS would combine their resources to get New-Witt running, rather than the SoS getting authority to set up New-Witt independently on a different server and thus fragmenting our important websites. Can you give me a form of words that would achieve what I want?
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on May 14, 2019 19:24:44 GMT -6
Really? Because El Lex has a dozen or more references to "Witt" or "Wittenberg". Right now there is no definition of what that is, just the "default" that it's this forum. If this law is enacted, then "Wittenberg" means the new forum, but I don't know MinSTUFF's time-frame for getting that operative. I can foresee a world of trouble if there's a gap between passing this law and getting New-Witt open; or if there's a period of time when we're using both Witts. Really, yes. But if you think this is a concern, then we can just slap an equivalent ephemeral provision in this bill without putting in in el Lexhatx, letting us keep the legal code as accessible and clean as possible. Work for you? What I want is for Wittenberg to be operating in the same "official webspace" as covered by the MinStuff's legislative remit, i.e. hosted on talossa.com, although still under Chancery supervision. I.e. MinSTUFF already has a "trial Witt" up and running, and it would be most efficient if he and the SoS would combine their resources to get New-Witt running, rather than the SoS getting authority to set up New-Witt independently on a different server and thus fragmenting our important websites. Can you give me a form of words that would achieve what I want? What I wrote and existing law should, I think, achieve just that. I think we want to avoid a situation where the Chancery is supposed to run things and make choices, but also MinStuff is supposed to host, provide access, and provide content for Witt. The previous language was very confusing about what responsibility lies where. The new version requires MinStuff to provide content and access to all official webpages, and there's nothing to prevent them from also hosting on request of the Chancery the Wittenberg architecture that the Chancery is responsible for. The previous language had dual assignment of power, and that's going to lead to bad things. For example, suppose the Chancery has to ban someone from Witt for a longstanding pattern of personal abuse and hate speech. That person could point out, rightly, that MinStuff is obligated to provide all Talossans with access to Wittenberg, no exceptions made. We could add in an exception for the Chancery's authority, but then all we've done is come back full circle (assigning responsibility and then taking it away completely).
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on May 14, 2019 19:31:35 GMT -6
I'm happy to go with your suggestions, pending a double-check from the A-G to make sure your legal reasoning is sound.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on May 21, 2019 12:35:57 GMT -6
The Wittenberg Transition Act Whereas a series of forums owned by private individuals, going by the generic name of "Wittenberg", have been one of the central forums of Talossanity since 1997, and whereas "Witt" is often the public face of our country, and
Whereas Witt is an internet forum, and while Talossans are the most extraordinary people on the Earth, sometimes things can get out of hand, and we do need a small group of people empowered to bring it back in hand, and
Whereas it's probably no longer a good idea to split up the increasingly-quiet Witt into other boards, and
Whereas basically we just want pretty obvious and common-sense moderation, but done under the rule of law, and whereas el Lexhatx makes common reference to Wittenberg, but nowhere defines what it actually is,THEREFORE the Ziu hereby deletes Title J of el Lexhatx in its entirety, replacing it with the following: FURTHERMORE, until such a time as the Chancery officially certifies the new official board as ready for occupancy, "Wittenberg" shall be taken to mean the forum at talossa.proboards.com which currently goes by that name. FURTHERMORE, Lex.D.2.10.3 shall be amended to read as below: FURTHERMORE, 47RZ22 and 48RZ24 are hereby repealed.
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on May 28, 2019 14:38:21 GMT -6
Haven't had nearly as much as I had hoped to look at all the different telecomuna proposals (or write a Ziu proposal myself based on the old law and the forum created by MinStuff)
Is it legally possible to moderate a government owned forum at all, without specifying exactly what administrative actions are permitted and when?
Also, any new telecomuna should probably also repeal 47RZ22 and 48RZ24, which also may still be in effect.
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