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Post by Inxheneu Crova on Feb 8, 2016 12:14:27 GMT -6
I'm not sure that a 5% number is at all reliable when translated to Talossan scale. I can see a lot of reasons why it could be either much higher or much lower. This is however the research that was referred to. In any event the lack of evidence of any effect at all makes an attack on the mere conduct of a poll unreasonable, at least on these grounds. I still think people should do their best and leave the result to the ultimate opinion poll, the election. But I dont see a lot of harm in it either, if it keeps poll nerds happy!
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Feb 8, 2016 12:18:44 GMT -6
In any event the lack of evidence of any effect at all makes an attack on the mere conduct of a poll unreasonable, at least on these grounds. Do you think it similarly unreasonable to criticise the public ballot based on concerns about bandwagon effect?
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Feb 8, 2016 12:27:07 GMT -6
In any event the lack of evidence of any effect at all makes an attack on the mere conduct of a poll unreasonable, at least on these grounds. Do you think it similarly unreasonable to criticise the public ballot based on concerns about bandwagon effect? Of course not. The public ballot comes with your name and therefore social sanction attached. It used to be, did it not, RUMP policy that Cabinet and Cosa seats would only be given out to those who voted in public with their names attached? That's why I call it the "Loyalty Parade".
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Iustì Tíçhern Corneir
Citizen of Talossa
Shadow Foreign Minister, Free Democrats of Talossa
Posts: 67
Talossan Since: 10-19-2015
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Post by Iustì Tíçhern Corneir on Feb 8, 2016 12:38:03 GMT -6
While I am not sure that FreeDems position in recent polls is evidence of inevitable victory, I think it is safe to say that it is not a bad thing, no? I'd certainly want to be in front than not. We must beware of complacency, but some how I doubt that would happen in any case, polls or not
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Post by Inxheneu Crova on Feb 8, 2016 13:10:17 GMT -6
In any event the lack of evidence of any effect at all makes an attack on the mere conduct of a poll unreasonable, at least on these grounds. Do you think it similarly unreasonable to criticise the public ballot based on concerns about bandwagon effect? It wouldnt be my reason for favouring the secret ballot, if anybody was asking! I guess my thinking on it would be that my decision as to how I vote is my own business, and I dont have to justify that to anyone. I can opt out of secrecy if I'm not bothered who knows it, and in the Talossan contect if I am not afraid to defend myself, but I shouldnt be obliged to. Theres also the question of the ecpectation of reward if one votes for the winner. I think this might be the "bandwagon effect" others might be thinking of. Its not the same as the limited statistical effect on certain types of voter that opinion polls have been shown to produce in certain contexts. I just dont think there are many voters like that in Talossa. I dont know, but Im willing to speculate, that party loyalty or personal friendship are way more important factors. Opinion polls could and should be challenged in the basis of their methodology or the interests of those who are organising them. This should counteract any impact an unscrupulous or just incorrect poll might have among the credulous, wouldnt it?
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Feb 9, 2016 18:08:23 GMT -6
It used to be, did it not, RUMP policy that Cabinet and Cosa seats would only be given out to those who voted in public with their names attached? Not that I know of. The RUMP occasionally gives small numbers of Cosa seats to people who join the party after an election, and RUMP governments have appointed non-member ministers. When the secret ballot option was implemented, there was a policy that you had to vote publicly for the RUMP to stay in the party, but that was reversed within a matter of hours when some members objected.
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Feb 13, 2016 14:45:30 GMT -6
Do you think it similarly unreasonable to criticise the public ballot based on concerns about bandwagon effect? Of course not. The public ballot comes with your name and therefore social sanction attached. It used to be, did it not, RUMP policy that Cabinet and Cosa seats would only be given out to those who voted in public with their names attached? That's why I call it the "Loyalty Parade". The "secret ballot" option only came into play a couple of Cosa'a ago. It's not fair to say that the RUMP required your public allegiance before you could get seats or appointments due to the very fact that 100% of the ballots were legally cast in public anyway. The RUMP had no reason to require such a stipulation on a person, because the option of voting secretly was not an option. Like, it would not have occurred to the RUMP leadership to make such a demand or put such a stipulation in place. It would not have crossed, say, Baron Hooligans mind, at the time, to demand your vote before giving you seats, because ALL the votes were public in the first place anyway. It was a given. It was the status quo. *scratches head*
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Feb 13, 2016 14:50:34 GMT -6
... The RUMP occasionally gives small numbers of Cosa seats to people who join the party after an election Which isn't always the case. Back in 2009 or 2010 when I joined the RUMP for the first time, I WAS NOT AWARDED SEATS. Yep, that's right. I joined the party and voted for it, but, the leader at the time said he couldn't give me Cosa seats because seats were awarded on merit and I hadn't yet proved my worth to be in the Cosa. So, there ya go. If you look back far enough, you will find public record of this. The "loyalty parade" doesn't exist. Its simply hyperbole.
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Feb 13, 2016 14:53:26 GMT -6
...and RUMP governments have appointed non-member ministers. Wasn't Seneschal Iusti Canun's government a Cabinet of bipartisan talent?
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