THG Discussion Thread

[Cade Nettles]

Hello, and welcome to the discussion thread!

This thread's sole purpose is to serve as a place to discuss history.

Here are some rules:

1. Off-topic is heresy

2. Try not to be overzealous with cursing

3. Have fun at all costs!

And thus ends the rules.

Regards,
Cade.

[Françal Ian Lux]

Azul everyone! Any thoughts on what we should discuss first?

[Cade Nettles]

Maybe I should message the others that it's actually the others that it's open. Also, I think The 30 years war sounds good for a first discussion.

[Thomas Dellaert]

Hi! Sorry I didn't see this until today! Are we talking about things? I guess I'll introduce myself? Oh god I dunno. It's 1 AM and I'll come back in the morning.
What in particular about the 30 years war should we talk about? I don't know too much about it except for how it started and ended, and that it led to a lot of new and interesting politics. 

[Cade Nettles]

Basic background to it is that the Holy Roman Emperor declared that every country that had joined the reformation must convert or die.

[Françal Ian Lux]

Well it's a bit more complicated than that. The Holy Roman Empire's a bit of a misnomer since they weren't really roman nor an empire and certainly not holy lol the war (which started due to religion) became a geopolitical war between the Hapsburgs and their French counterparts.

Why don't we first discuss the status of the Holy Roman Empire prior to the war? That would explain a lot.

[Cade Nettles]

It would.

[Thomas Dellaert]

Also to note that although the conflict was centered on the Empire, it was an important geopolitical event. It saw Ottoman involvement and launched Sweden into prominence. The war escalated in what I can't help but seeing as power plays by outside forces. What made it that way, and what caused it to be different from other wars in this respect?

As for the state of the HRE, what I've read tells me it was politically divided into the princedoms, and that many princes in the HRE had by this time used protestantism as a way to increase their personal power by both circumventing the authority of the Church and (to an extent) of the emperor. Most of this seems to me to have been settled (if inadequately) at the Peace of Augsburg 50 years before. So what motivated the beginning of this war?

Tensions had already spawned violent conflict in the region by the time Emperor Matthias interceded. What were the motives behind this intercession? Was it a personal power play? Was he acting on religious conviction?
And how did it get so out of hand? How did the Ottomans and the Swedes and the French get involved, often on sides opposing their own religion?

Sorry if I asked a lot of questions without giving many support/analyses (a bit tired), but I hope at least one of them gets a discussion going!

[Françal Ian Lux]

Best ways to keep conversations going! Ask questions

The HRE really had no authority or at least no authority you'd expect when you first read about it. It was an entity that, although geopolitically influential, was waning in prestige and prominence.

The Empire was originally an attempt by the papacy to establish dominance in European affairs, but as time went on, the head of the empire became a subject of bribery and patronage. The Hapsburgs paid their ascension and it was good for awhile. But it didn't last.

What makes the 300 years war different is not how it was fought, but how it began and what it meant. I like to think of it as Proto-nationalism.

[Sir C. M. Siervicül]

Feb 28, 2015 22:59:50 GMT -6 Françal Ian Lux said:

The Holy Roman Empire's a bit of a misnomer since they weren't really roman nor an empire and certainly not holy

Welcome to Coffee Talk, with your host, Linda Richman.

[Françal Ian Lux]

Mar 2, 2015 10:41:19 GMT -6 Sir C. M. Siervicül said:

Feb 28, 2015 22:59:50 GMT -6 Françal Ian Lux said:

The Holy Roman Empire's a bit of a misnomer since they weren't really roman nor an empire and certainly not holy

Welcome to Coffee Talk, with your host, Linda Richman.

Thank you, thank you!

[Cade Nettles]

France wanted to take the old Burgundian land that the Austrians inherited, the Ottomans wanted the Balkans, which Austria was gaining influence in, and Sweden joined in because the Austrians were suppressing Protestants in Bohemia.

[Cade Nettles]

The Bohemians themselves responded by chucking some Austrian officials out of a window in Prague.

[Françal Ian Lux]

I remember reading that somewhere

What's your opinions about France's claim on the HRE since Charles V was technically a French subject and therefore subservient to Francis (not me ) even when he (Charles) ascended to the throne?

[Cade Nettles]

Charles was a huge threat to the balance of power in Europe since he ruled over both the HRE AND Spain, so I think that Francis was right to oppose him.