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Post by Vitxalmour Estinc-Vatna on Dec 12, 2012 20:23:03 GMT -6
So lets get this straight. If I were a citizen of another micronation, I couldn't be Talossan? And if I become Talossan, the Kingdom government is going to tell me what I can and can't do? Thus the reason why we are debating a significant change. Good to see a brand new prospective jumping in to the fray! Well, it seems a little improper that the Talossan government is telling me what to do in my own time. |
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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Dec 12, 2012 20:29:59 GMT -6
Thus the reason why we are debating a significant change. Good to see a brand new prospective jumping in to the fray! Well, it seems a little improper that the Talossan government is telling me what to do in my own time. That's exactly why the ZRT is supporting these initiatives. I'm sure I speak for all of the ZRT when I say "nice job!" to everyone who has contributed to the work that's been done on this Hoppered act. |
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Post by Vitxalmour Estinc-Vatna on Dec 12, 2012 20:32:10 GMT -6
Well, it seems a little improper that the Talossan government is telling me what to do in my own time. That's exactly why the ZRT is supporting these initiatives. I'm sure I speak for all of the ZRT when I say "nice job!" to everyone who has contributed to the work that's been done on this Hoppered act. Wow. Gotta make sure the ZRT's got its name plastered all over this, eh? |
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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Dec 12, 2012 20:35:55 GMT -6
I don't honestly give a hoot whether it has its name plastered all over it; we've certainly contributed to the debate, but thanks go out to the MRPT who authored the proposal. It's great to see that we aren't the only party fighting for this.
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Post by Vitxalmour Estinc-Vatna on Dec 13, 2012 13:30:59 GMT -6
I don't honestly give a hoot whether it has its name plastered all over it; we've certainly contributed to the debate, but thanks go out to the MRPT who authored the proposal. It's great to see that we aren't the only party fighting for this. I just noted that while everyone else was talking ideals, you managed to name drop your party twice in the same post. Thats the kind of politico I'm trying to get away from in coming to Talossa. |
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Dec 13, 2012 13:38:52 GMT -6
I don't honestly give a hoot whether it has its name plastered all over it; we've certainly contributed to the debate, but thanks go out to the MRPT who authored the proposal. It's great to see that we aren't the only party fighting for this. I just noted that while everyone else was talking ideals, you managed to name drop your party twice in the same post. Thats the kind of politico I'm trying to get away from in coming to Talossa. It seemed perfectly appropriate, muted, and fine to me. There's nothing wrong with aligning a party behind a bill to help indicate public support - it's to be commended, I think. |
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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Dec 13, 2012 14:19:48 GMT -6
I don't honestly give a hoot whether it has its name plastered all over it; we've certainly contributed to the debate, but thanks go out to the MRPT who authored the proposal. It's great to see that we aren't the only party fighting for this. I just noted that while everyone else was talking ideals, you managed to name drop your party twice in the same post. Thats the kind of politico I'm trying to get away from in coming to Talossa. Yes, I knew what you were doing. As it happens, I'm very happy about this bill being put forward because it was one of the big things in the ZRT manifesto in the last election. I reckon it's perfectly reasonable to want to jump for joy that there's cross-party support for it. Also, I agree with S:reu Davinescu. |
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Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on Dec 13, 2012 16:09:20 GMT -6
Thats the kind of politico I'm trying to get away from in coming to Talossa. Good luck with both that ambition and that attitude! |
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Post by Vitxalmour Estinc-Vatna on Dec 13, 2012 16:18:18 GMT -6
Thats the kind of politico I'm trying to get away from in coming to Talossa. Good luck with both that ambition and that attitude! Thank you! Always try to make things just a little bit better and whatnot. |
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Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on Dec 14, 2012 4:16:16 GMT -6
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Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
Posts: 1,401 
Talossan Since: 9-27-2010
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Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on Dec 22, 2012 5:08:17 GMT -6
... Might as well apply this test -- France: not a micronation (UN member) Penguinea: micronation Taiwan: not a micronation (recognised by Talossa and member of UNPO) Vatican/Holy See: micronation (but if a Talossan citizen actually stood to gain Vatican citizenship, I have little doubt recognition or at least whitelisting could be achieved) South Sudan: not a micronation (UN member) Palestine: micronation (although adding UN observer states to the non-micronation list would probably be fairly uncontroversial, and would also solve the Vatican problem) ... (I apologise for my not replying sooner) I chose my list of test nations rather carefully, and - Sir Cresti - you are almost right. I actually meant Berwick-upon-Tweed, not Kingston-upon-Hull - sorry! Berwick (and I am quoting from my rather sketchy memory, rather than looking it up!) used to have the right to be named in all declarations of war and peace - it retained that right (of being named) for hundreds of years after losing other aspects of its independence. Guernsey (and, indeed, all of the Channel Islands) has the great peculiarity of being "in, but not in" Britain, depending on whether you are looking at the issuing of passports (it's in), the paying of income and company tax (it's sort-of in) or the paying of VAT [Value Added Tax] (it's got its own rules entirely - or did have, last time I looked... which, again, to be fair, was a few years ago).
I also apologise for using South Sudan - at the time of my typing my previous message I was not aware that it had become a member of the UN. My bad.
But Vatican City/Holy See and Palestine are the real killers here - as you say, Sir Cresti, these are (according to Talossan discussions) micronations. Are we, in Talossa, going to make citizenship here (note - I say "citizenship" not "the holding of public office", which requires a deeper discussion) depend upon the opinions and rules of external bodies (the government of that foreign country, the USA; the United Nations; etc.)?
I, as a strong believer in individual freedom, say that we should not.
In fact, I believe that we in Talossa should simply ignore what is not relevant to us. This person prefers Bach to Beethoven? Irrelevant. that person prefers chess to football? Of no concern of ours. And this person is the Taiwanese personal secretary to the Pope in Palestine? Or a citizen of Sealand? Again - despite our individual tastes - irrelevant.
Talossa should not, as a nation, make a declaration on these things. Every other nation is whitelisted - hence there is no need for a whitelist.
And, of course, us individual citizens may - because of our inalienable rights of freedom - hold (and continue to express) what ever opinions we wish.
"I may not agree with what you say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it." (Evelyn Beatrice Hall) |
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Post by Munditenens Tresplet on Dec 22, 2012 10:00:41 GMT -6
Vatican City and Palestine both have some recognition in the United Nations--Nonmember observer status--which qualifies them both for most UN programs. It is hard to say that they are micronations; do Sealand and Talossa have permanent headquarters in the New York City UN Complex? Do Sealand and Talossa qualify for UN aid?
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Post by Adam H. on Dec 22, 2012 10:05:11 GMT -6
Vatican City and Palestine both have some recognition in the United Nations--Nonmember observer status--which qualifies them both for most UN programs. It is hard to say that they are micronations; do Sealand and Talossa have permanent headquarters in the New York City UN Complex? Do Sealand and Talossa qualify for UN aid? And Order of Malta too |
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Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on Dec 23, 2012 9:06:34 GMT -6
Vatican City and Palestine both have some recognition in the United Nations--Nonmember observer status--which qualifies them both for most UN programs. It is hard to say that they are micronations I believe there is some confusion above the meaning of micronation and microstate. Both of them aren't micronations, as the Vatican is commonly recognized as a microstate (a small and not-so-much-populated nation). Talossa herself is a microstate, being only 15 sq. kms extended (GTA + Cez.). |
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Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on Dec 23, 2012 9:15:11 GMT -6
Vatican City and Palestine both have some recognition in the United Nations--Nonmember observer status--which qualifies them both for most UN programs. It is hard to say that they are micronations I believe there is some confusion above the meaning of micronation and microstate. Both of them aren't micronations, as the Vatican is commonly recognized as a microstate (a small and not-so-much-populated nation). Talossa herself is a microstate, being only 15 sq. kms extended (GTA + Cez.). No, we don't have control over our own territory (we don't even aspire to), so we're a micronation. |
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