[ROUND THREE] Provincial Name Change

[Eðo Grischun]

"but what you and the "Sir" (whose conduct and education are just horrible) Preston did is simply, merely, straightforwardly STUPID."

"Isn't he just a moron?"


Well, that's just plain rude. Ignorant and rude.

(modify)

In fact, son, it is quite likely the most rude thing I've ever, EVER, read on these boards. Shame on you.

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

Looking at the profile of S:reu Lüc da Schir -

I see that he is just 15 years of age .

If this is true, I understand his outburst. It's the comments of youth, and those that feel deeply about an issue.

If he truly feels that I am unlearned, and ill informed - then there is nothing I can say to change his opinion. No degrees awarded to me from any college can sway a 15 year old lad from his opinion. I understand that.

If he wishes to decide to make his points by referring to my intellect as being on the level of "stupid" - then I cannot change the the opinion that he holds.

If he decides that I should not be addressed by the honorific term of "Sir", or "Captain" or even "S:reu" - well, he needs to take that up with King John, because he is the one that gave me those Honors.

So, to sum it up - I care not for what Lüc da Schir decides to throw at my feet, via insult or injury.

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

And for the record -

S:reu Grischun and I have clashed many many times over the years on issues.

But I daresay we have never stooped to this level of insult.

I consider him a very literate , and informed advisory when it comes to the Kingdom's issues- and also my friend, and confidant at times.

A person can disagree with another, without insulting.

[Benedict Stamford]

So, are we not changing the province name? Cause, honestly... I think we should.

[Deleted]

Honestly, I have no idea what Luc is on about. What I did was resign as Maestro because I refused to preside over these inane proceedings. D whatever you want. I'll vote against them, but it is well within your right to do whatever you want.

A lot of work went into trying to develop a better province. But here, after no one participated in this years arts festival, we have a newbie convention that seeks only to change the name of the province. This is no different then when Simeon decided that "Sovereign Province" was incorrect and in need of changing in the Constitution.

Besides, you'll rename the province, again, and then in six months someone new will come along and decide they have a better name. We had a constitutional convention, the name changed went to referendum and the citizens ALL voted on the name Benito.

I've so far had two personal insults thrown at me in this thread, and I am getting really sick of it.

[Deleted]

Jan 2, 2013 9:34:21 GMT -6 Sarac'h Txilvertescu said:

Yes. I did review the arguments. There seemed to be support for changing it FROM Benito, but then the Admiral howled blue murder and castigated folks for everything short of treason.

I reviewed the previous arguments, and am unconvinced. I don't seek to fix whats not broken, but I see it as broken. The days of the boy's drinking club are over, Talossa is growing. It is changing.

Oh wow you read a few threads? That is so nice of you to take 10 minutes to try to catch up. Since you've been here since May, I guess that was ample time to get to know me.

I suppose you also read through the constitutional convention threads where we busted our butts to try and get things squared away in this province. Oh wait, did you also pull the phone records from when I called other Benitians during my lunch break a work to discuss naming and constitutional issues?

When we proposed the initial renaming, our poll included the option to keep the name Mussolini. Very few opted for that path, but we offered it just the same. Why? Because provincial name changes require a referendum of the province's citizenry. It doesn't get decided by the four new people who show up and decide to change stuff.

It's a democratic sort of thing, get it? Yet, at every insistence that we need to engage the broader citizenry of Benito and leave the current name on the table, that was ignored. Look at the poll. No option to remain the same.

But guess what? That's not even my biggest objection. My biggest objection is that many name change proposals are coming with the condition that we amend the constitution to strike all of the Italian stuff out of the province, including renaming our Vicere and redesigning our flag. THAT is what I find sickening.

And worse yet, who the heck ARE you?

You've never sent me a PM to discuss provincial issues or invited me to connect on Gtalk. I have no idea who you are or what your hopes, dreams and goals for the province are. Just as you don't know mine. And rather than taking the time to meet someone who has been around in this province a while and see if, maybe, we could find some points of mutual interest, you decided all you needed about me from a single post. From a single post you decided that the only reason I opposed these changes is because of some "drinking club" (I don't drink, by the way).

So I'm dismayed that my 6 years in the Kingdom is so overshadowed by a poll that ignored my feedback and constant urgings to preserve Benitian culture, even if we do decide to change our provincial name. Ad I'm even more dismayed that you felt the need to strike at me personally without ever trying to get to know me.

Things are changing in the Kingdom. When I became a citizen, people welcomed me. People asked me questions and wanted to get to know me. I spoke with some here in the phone within a few months of becoming a citizen. Now we have some new folks who don't want to know their fellow citizens. The don't want to know about provincial culture. They want to throw the long standing Italian connection Benito has out with the name. People don't just want to "fix" the name, they want to tear down the entire province and start from scratch. And that has nothing to do with a drinking club at all.

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

The Kingdom isn't changing, just growing. The pleasant and diligent folks are still around, and we still like to know you.

[C. Carlüs Xheraltescù]

As an onlooker from another province, I hope you won't be too angry if I volunteer my own opinion briefly? Admiral, how long do you think someone needs to be a citizen of Benito before they're allowed to try and change their own province? I may be wrong, and I do apologise if I am, but the idea that only citizens who have been around for a specified length of time are allowed to even consider changing their own province - which seems un-democratic, unfair and unnecessary in a state such as Talossa.

It isn't my intention that this post be taken personally, but these are my thoughts on the matter. Despite personally agreeing with moves to Talossify provincial names, it isn't my place to express my exact opinion regarding what the exact name should be.

*hobbles back to the Convention*

[Deleted]

Jan 5, 2013 14:38:15 GMT -6 C. Carlüs Xheraltescù said:

As an onlooker from another province, I hope you won't be too angry if I volunteer my own opinion briefly? Admiral, how long do you think someone needs to be a citizen of Benito before they're allowed to try and change their own province? I may be wrong, and I do apologise if I am, but the idea that only citizens who have been around for a specified length of time are allowed to even consider changing their own province - which seems un-democratic, unfair and unnecessary in a state such as Talossa.

It's also not what I said.

I criticized my rude critic for personally attacking me when she doesn't know me, has made no effort to know me and has not been around very long so as to even begin to pretend to know me.

I was accused of trying to protect a "drunken boys club." I offered background on why I made the post cited as my "howling blue murder."

It isn't my intention that this post be taken personally, but these are my thoughts on the matter. Despite personally agreeing with moves to Talossify provincial names, it isn't my place to express my exact opinion regarding what the exact name should be.

*hobbles back to the Convention*

This isn't about names, this is about personally attacking fellow Talossans on the basis of one. So I'm afraid you misunderstood what was said, why it was said and the context in which it was said.

[C. Carlüs Xheraltescù]

The thread was about a movement to rename the province, so I believe a considerable amount of this thread is to do with names, really. You were critical of a "newbie convention" changing the name of the province, which I took to mean that you're critical of a convention of people who haven't been citizens for as long as you have changing the name of the province.

I had no wish to engage in the dispute regarding who insulted who by saying what, lest I unintentionally offend anyone.

[Deleted]

Jan 5, 2013 14:56:29 GMT -6 C. Carlüs Xheraltescù said:

The thread was about a movement to rename the province, so I believe a considerable amount of this thread is to do with names, really. You were critical of a "newbie convention" changing the name of the province, which I took to mean that you're critical of a convention of people who haven't been citizens for as long as you have changing the name of the province.

I had no wish to engage in the dispute regarding who insulted who by saying what, lest I unintentionally offend anyone.

Then perhaps it would have been best to not attempt to warp my statements about common decency into something they were not.

I granted permission for the ZRT conference on condition that it remained in conference threads.

[Sarac'h Txilvertescu]

Who said you drank, Admiral? I believe I was talking to S:reu Preston at the time.

And when it comes right on down to it, no. I did not pull your phone records. I read the threads because those are what I have to go on.

[C. Carlüs Xheraltescù]

Admiral, to my knowledge, I did not. I haven't moved to insult nor attack you, and I would appreciate it if you would be so kind as to not accuse me of something I have not done. I was only commenting on the thread's original purpose and some of the reasons you had provided against changing the name; I apologise if you thought I was doing otherwise. No offence was intended, and I'm disappointed that you won't engage with some of the points I raised. I'm sure you'd agree that debate in hand is more important than throwing insults at people, right? (I'm not accusing you of doing so, in case you're thinking I am)

This has nothing to do with the ZRT either. That I am a member of the ZRT is irrelevant - just as when RUMPers commented with their thoughts in Fiova.

[Deleted]

Jan 5, 2013 15:17:01 GMT -6 Sarac'h Txilvertescu said:

Who said you drank, Admiral? I believe I was talking to S:reu Preston at the time.

And when it comes right on down to it, no. I did not pull your phone records. I read the threads because those are what I have to go on.

Let's shore this up, shall we? I am growing tired of this entire argument.

I will reiterate that my opposition is not to the name change. If you had read all of the threads, you would see that I stated that I preferred keeping the current name, but voted for Garibaldi if we were making some changes. After all, Garibaldi is far less controversial and represents more of a kickass rebel spirit than anyone (famous) bearing the name Benito.

What I opposed was the scrapping of the entire culture that has been developing which everyone seems to be lumping in with the provincial name change. I can live with throwing out the bath water, but I've grown attached to the baby.

[Sarac'h Txilvertescu]

Developing culture? Are we not Talossan? Makes more sense to me if we were to embrace that as opposed to coming off like a low rent Poughkeepsie Olive Garden.