RUMP Campaign Underway

[Hooligan]

RUMP member, party treasurer and benefactor, and former Seneschal Alexander Davis has remitted the registration fee to the Burgermeister of Inland Revenue, so the RUMP's hat is now officially in the ring.

Why anyone would put a hat on a RUMP, let alone put it in a ring afterwards, who knows? Well, too late now.

(( Hool ))

[Vitxalmour Conductour]

May 24, 2012 14:56:48 GMT -6 Hooligan said:

RUMP member, party treasurer and benefactor, and former Seneschal Alexander Davis has remitted the registration fee to the Burgermeister of Inland Revenue, so the RUMP's hat is now officially in the ring.

Why anyone would put a hat on a RUMP, let alone put it in a ring afterwards, who knows? Well, too late now.

(( Hool ))

[Eiric S. Börnatfiglheu]

May 24, 2012 12:15:00 GMT -6 Hooligan said:

This is all theoretical, of course, as I don't think I am prepared to grant the argument that the law is inOrganic, and even so, it's not for me to decide, but for the Corts. But to answer your question:

The RUMP would still, should restricting micronational involvement be declared inOrganic, pursue policies to deny Talossan citizens the right of free assembly and association?

You changed my words, which had been:

...it would look for and implement alternative ways to achieve the same end-result that helps our nation.

And according to our platform, one end-result (with which you agree) is that Talossans be devoted to King and Country and that they use their nation-building skills for Talossan purposes. Again, this is theoretical, but if such a result cannot be encouraged through legislation, then the "alternative ways" the RUMP would seek would be otherwise than through legislation.

And yet, how might that be accomplished, aside from proscribing our citizen's activities? Whether this is done by legislation, Prime Dictate, or Royal decree, it still steps on the right of assembly.

Many nations do not allow (or simply discourage) dual citizenship. But that is citizenship among differing nations of equivalent sovereignty. It was always my impression that RUMP policy was that Talossa was not a micronation and does not recognize such entities. And, if they're not recognized, then they're clubs which would be, I imagine, protected by free assembly.

My sainted grandmother once said that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, and while I never really understood her fascination with flies... I think it applies. As opposed to proscribing activities and limiting the free association of our citizenry, we need to make Talossa the pinnacle of small nation building. Such a beacon would attract and keep people!

[Hooligan]

I am quite drunk right now. For all those who don't mind an occasionally (but tonight, okay, more than usual) drunk PM, vote RUMP.

Oh, you asked a question? I will read it tomorrow.

Three cheers for Talossa!

Hool

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

May 24, 2012 20:08:48 GMT -6 Hooligan said:

I am quite drunk right now. For all those who don't mind an occasionally (but tonight, okay, more than usual) drunk PM, vote RUMP.

Oh, you asked a question? I will read it tomorrow.

Three cheers for Talossa!

Hool

Last time I was that drunk, I woke up Deputy Secretary of State.

[Eiric S. Börnatfiglheu]

May 24, 2012 20:08:48 GMT -6 Hooligan said:

I am quite drunk right now. For all those who don't mind an occasionally (but tonight, okay, more than usual) drunk PM, vote RUMP.

Oh, you asked a question? I will read it tomorrow.

Three cheers for Talossa!
Hool

Fair enough. We eagerly await the RUMP's answer.

[Lüc da Schir]

May 24, 2012 20:18:32 GMT -6 Capt. Sir Mick Preston said:

May 24, 2012 20:08:48 GMT -6 Hooligan said:

I am quite drunk right now. For all those who don't mind an occasionally (but tonight, okay, more than usual) drunk PM, vote RUMP.

Oh, you asked a question? I will read it tomorrow.

Three cheers for Talossa!

Hool

Last time I was that drunk, I woke up Deputy Secretary of State.

Last time I was that drunk, I woke up promoted with an A to the High School.

(Hool, you said this because you know that you are the superfavorite for these elections)

Lüc

[Hooligan]

May 24, 2012 17:46:23 GMT -6 Eiric S. Börnatfiglheu said:

And yet, how might that be accomplished, aside from proscribing our citizen's activities? Whether this is done by legislation, Prime Dictate, or Royal decree, it still steps on the right of assembly.

Sorry for the delay in answering. After I (just now) read the question, it's a simple one to answer. This would be done, I suppose, by simply stepping up our efforts, as a nation, more than ever, to make sure that all citizens have something they can be doing and can enjoy doing, to help Talossa, and try harder than ever to keep them engaged and sure in the knowledge that the best use of their nation-building skills is for Talossa and not any other project.

Many nations do not allow (or simply discourage) dual citizenship. But that is citizenship among differing nations of equivalent sovereignty. It was always my impression that RUMP policy was that Talossa was not a micronation and does not recognize such entities. And, if they're not recognized, then they're clubs which would be, I imagine, protected by free assembly.

The issue, though, is that while we as a nation may consider the micronations to be clubs, they do not, and they consider Talossa to be exactly like any of those others, and therefore if micronationalists (involved in any number of these clubs) begin to add Talossa to the list of things they're involved in, Talossa will come to be seen as simply a club too, and Talossans as simply micronationalists who all dabble in every micronation under the sun, and it is very much the RUMP's policy that this is not at all the case.

My sainted grandmother once said that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, and while I never really understood her fascination with flies... I think it applies. As opposed to proscribing activities and limiting the free association of our citizenry, we need to make Talossa the pinnacle of small nation building. Such a beacon would attract and keep people!

We're growing at a clip that keeps me overbusy as it is! :-)

Hool

[Munditenens Tresplet]

May 26, 2012 10:36:45 GMT -6 Hooligan said:

The issue, though, is that while we as a nation may consider the micronations to be clubs, they do not, and they consider Talossa to exactly like any of those others, and therefore if micronationalists (involved in any number of these clubs) begin to add Talossa to the list of things they're involved in, Talossa will come to be seen as simply a club too, and Talossans as simply micronationalists who all dabble in every micronation under the sun, and it is very much the RUMP's policy that this is not at all the case...
Hool

As a RUMP member, I wish to express my own opinion on this matter: Hooligan is exactly right.

Micronationalists do dabble in several different micronations in one time, and while I agree with the age old adage "To each his own", I don't feel that micronationalists who play a part in several different micro-ventures should be given any kind of decision-making position in the Kingdom. If one simply wanted to be a citizen, and actively participate in the Kingdom from a citizen's perspective, that is fine! The more citizens in our Kingdom the better, and we always love active citizens!

Having said that, letting a micronationalist take any kind of position of power, whether on a provincial parliamentary level or especially on a national level, could result in bills or decrees that might hurt Talossa for the benefit of another one of their ventures. For example, creating a "paper" war with another micronation might decrease the unique qualities of Talossa that distinguish it from other run-of-the-mill nations. It is for this reason that, if I return to the Cosa in the next term, I will support efforts (amendments or otherwise) to...well I will support everything I just said in legislative form.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

So does that mean the RUMP, or some of its members, would be prepared to allow dual citizenship along with a ban on holding any government post?

In this matter, I always go back to the Free Commonwealth of Penguinea, which was kind of a micronational "Champions League" in that almost all our active citizens were current or former big-wigs or co-founders of other micronations. This meant that (a) they knew what they were doing; and (b) generally they got tired of their own micronations compared to the fun of playing in the Penguinean "big league", and folded or quit their micronations or in extreme cases got their citizens to become Penguinean en masse. I, for one, have enough interest in Talossa that once someone's become integrated into our national life, no other micronational allegiance could possibly hold any threat to our national interests or security.

What's more, newer citizens must remember that this ban on dual citizenship came from the paranoid, isolationist fantasies of King Robert I. Let us not perpetuate it out of misplaced conservatism, but let us provide a good argument for it if we are to keep it.

[Ceváglh Scurznicol]

Out of curiosity, since the ZRT is the goat, what animal is the RUMP? The only one I can think suitable is the hippopotamus, since it has a most enormous very broad and wide rump.

[Lüc da Schir]

May 28, 2012 7:26:10 GMT -6 Ceváglh Scurznicol said:

Out of curiosity, since the ZRT is the goat, what animal is the RUMP? The only one I can think suitable is the hippopotamus, since it has a most enormous very broad and wide rump.

The turtle!
I think it symbolizes the slowness of forming thoughts of their members when they are drinking a beer.

Wait - the turtle hasn't a rump!

[Eiric S. Börnatfiglheu]

May 26, 2012 10:36:45 GMT -6 Hooligan said:

The issue, though, is that while we as a nation may consider the micronations to be clubs, they do not, and they consider Talossa to be exactly like any of those others, and therefore if micronationalists (involved in any number of these clubs) begin to add Talossa to the list of things they're involved in, Talossa will come to be seen as simply a club too, and Talossans as simply micronationalists who all dabble in every micronation under the sun, and it is very much the RUMP's policy that this is not at all the case.

But this is what I am getting at. How micronations view themselves doesn't matter to us. What matters is their legal definition within our policies!

If they're clubs, I submit that they're protected under the right of free assembly. Though it is for the courts to decide in finality, it seems pretty clear to me. And thus what I find problematic in RUMP policy is a disregard for our Organic Rights coupled with a lack of trust in the Talossan immigration system and the judgement of our people.

[Hooligan]

The RUMP's winner not the turtle; it is the tortoise (el narec'hnar in Talossan). The party models itself on the conservative champion in the fable of The Tortoise and the Hare ("slow and steady wins the race").

Hool

[Munditenens Tresplet]

May 28, 2012 1:43:09 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

So does that mean the RUMP, or some of its members, would be prepared to allow dual citizenship along with a ban on holding any government post?

In this matter, I always go back to the Free Commonwealth of Penguinea, which was kind of a micronational "Champions League" in that almost all our active citizens were current or former big-wigs or co-founders of other micronations. This meant that (a) they knew what they were doing; and (b) generally they got tired of their own micronations compared to the fun of playing in the Penguinean "big league", and folded or quit their micronations or in extreme cases got their citizens to become Penguinean en masse. I, for one, have enough interest in Talossa that once someone's become integrated into our national life, no other micronational allegiance could possibly hold any threat to our national interests or security.

What's more, newer citizens must remember that this ban on dual citizenship came from the paranoid, isolationist fantasies of King Robert I. Let us not perpetuate it out of misplaced conservatism, but let us provide a good argument for it if we are to keep it.

What I, as an individual member of RUMP, is proposing (this is not the official RUMP position on the matter; what other RUMP members think is up to them) something that isn't that uncommon at all.

To answer your statement, I am not banning dual citizenship. America, for instance, allows dual citizenship. America also has clauses in holding public office, such as "You must live in this country for...". We do not want MCs that spend most of their time playing around in other micronations--we want good, active MCs who take time to read the legislation and make political decisions.

It is true that some former or current micronationalists have great ideas to bring to the table that could help Talossa in her ever increasing pursuit of new citizens. It is also true that some micronationalists could use their "knowledge" to help their other many projects and leave Talossa in the dust when they are finished milking us for all we have got.

Let us not forget that if it were not for King Robert I, there would be no Kingdom of Talossa.