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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2008 15:36:08 GMT -6
In researching constitutional conventions in the other provinces, I see mostly arguments about who is or isn't doing what, and virtually nothing about actual progress. Which is what I think S:reu Marabuérg refers to above.
I intend to research the process more fully before I will feel comfortable initiating, or participating in, any action yet. I have never done this before, so I am at a loss as to exactly how to start from ground zero.
Certainly, we could start with copies of other provinces' constitutions, but that means we will most likely end up with a modified version of a pre-existing document, rather than something novel and wonderful.
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Post by Çelís del Þeracour on Sept 16, 2008 7:57:02 GMT -6
I am all for novel and wonderful. Count me in on this process!
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Sept 16, 2008 8:58:50 GMT -6
If I might be so bold, I would suggest that you should start with founding principles around which you can create the document. Do you intend to create a strong central figure to administrate? Or do you intend to invest all power in an assembly? Both are fine options with different things to recommend them.
From there, it would be worth looking at the Organic Law as a good basis, with input from the other provincial constitutions and well-known historical documents like the Magna Carta or U.S. Constitution. While the provinces are not intrinsically separate entities and so have no right to secede, and they are restricted from a long list of important things according to Org.XVII.7, they are nonetheless invested with all powers not given to the national government according to Org.XVII.8. Other vital points to note in the development of your law are Org.XVII.9, Org.II.2 (with regard to the cunstaval's powers), Org.XVI.2 (should you guys decide to establish a judiciary or provide for a future one), and of course the whole of Org.XIX (the Covenant).
I hope that helps your consideration process some. Best wishes from M-M.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Sept 16, 2008 9:19:09 GMT -6
And Alex, what exactly had Nama done? *curious* See this and this for some details.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2008 12:06:01 GMT -6
I have some lovely projects on the table as Archivist, and I don't think I'm in a position to take this particular one up in a leadership position right now. I would love to lend my help to anyone else wishing to do so.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2008 9:17:52 GMT -6
I've changed my mind. I've set up a workspace to begin this project (a collaborative web notebook), and when I have a chance to get some basic ideas in place there, I'll post it and ask for contributors. If you want in now, let me know and I'll add you to the notbook.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2008 9:19:49 GMT -6
If I might be so bold, I would suggest that you should start with founding principles around which you can create the document. Do you intend to create a strong central figure to administrate? Or do you intend to invest all power in an assembly? Both are fine options with different things to recommend them. From there, it would be worth looking at the Organic Law as a good basis, with input from the other provincial constitutions and well-known historical documents like the Magna Carta or U.S. Constitution. While the provinces are not intrinsically separate entities and so have no right to secede, and they are restricted from a long list of important things according to Org.XVII.7, they are nonetheless invested with all powers not given to the national government according to Org.XVII.8. Other vital points to note in the development of your law are Org.XVII.9, Org.II.2 (with regard to the cunstaval's powers), Org.XVI.2 (should you guys decide to establish a judiciary or provide for a future one), and of course the whole of Org.XIX (the Covenant). I hope that helps your consideration process some. Best wishes from M-M. I should have said it earlier -- THANK YOU for your suggestions, S:reu Davis.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Sept 23, 2008 9:38:35 GMT -6
Anything I can do to help.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2008 17:47:50 GMT -6
I ask this of my fellow Ataturkeys who want to help on this project: please start reviewing the constitutions of other provinces, as well as the Org Law relevent to provincial powers (as described by S:reu Davis above), and start thinking about general ideas. What do you like/dislike about other provinces' constitutions? How should Ataturk power be divvied? We will, at some point, have to have at least 51% approval of what we decide, so it's be nice for some input now....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2008 11:23:12 GMT -6
I am writing a VERY rough draft. I am following a similar pattern to that seen in the old Cezembre constitution -- vesting power in an assembly, which is comprised of all provincial citizens of legal age. If that is disagreeable to anyone, PLEASE TELL ME NOW before I invest more time in this. Please accompany your critique with a suggestion for improvement.
I like the "open" nature of the Cezembre setup, in that it acknowledges the limitations of a small populace, while also providing enough structure to account for growth in the future. I also like that power is distributed among all citizens.
When I have a rough draft that is at least somewhat complete, I'll open it up for more discussion. That's not my attempt to dominate the process, I assure you -- I just think it'll be easier to discuss as a group if we have something concrete to discuss. Any and all parts will be open for change or complete repeal, of course.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2008 17:14:06 GMT -6
A question of clarification, perhaps for Cunstaval Holmes: how do the powers of the Cunstaval relate to the legislative powers vested in a Provincial assembly/legislature? In other words, does the Cunstaval have any specific power, aside from what might be given him by a province's own laws, over the process of making and/or enforcing provincial laws? I have read and re-read the OrgLaw with regard to this, but I feel foggy. I think, and want to here confirm, that the Cunstaval has powers ONLY in the national arena, as they pertain to a province's role in national politics.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Sept 25, 2008 0:54:50 GMT -6
Sorry to pop in here again, but I thought I could contribute on this last point: this is a matter about which there is much discussion and disagreement. When helping write the M-M constitution, we determined that we thought that the language should be treated literally: the Cunstaval exercises only those powers specifically given to the King and thereafter granted to him. Others felt the language should be treated analogously, and that the Cunstaval should have powers on the provincial level equal to those the King had on a national level. This is something you will have to solve for yourself, as the High Cort has issued no opinions and there is precedent on both sides.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2008 9:34:36 GMT -6
S:reu Davis -- thank you for your help! You are presently one of the most active non-Ataturkeys in the province!*
* Seriously, though, no disrespect to others here, I know we're all busy.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2008 9:36:35 GMT -6
Çelis del Þeracour: If you're around, check your inbox....
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Post by Çelís del Þeracour on Oct 6, 2008 17:20:39 GMT -6
Danihel, I'm sorry I have been away for a while but I am back, up and running! I responded to your personal message. Count me in!!!
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