EM Vürinalt
Citizen since 12-20-2007
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Posts: 979
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Post by EM Vürinalt on Feb 6, 2008 6:23:16 GMT -6
S:reu Betigneir: Here's the doodle I made and sent SoS Preston. I can't get the white box to disappear in my paint program.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
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Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Feb 6, 2008 8:24:08 GMT -6
We do have this in our files.
I submitted it a while back.
I believe the artisans in the basement were going to fine tune it, and present it in the next day or so.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Feb 6, 2008 9:23:48 GMT -6
Yeah, as it is the design is a little too complex (I figure 9 - five tinctures, three charges, one subordinary), uses a non-standard tincture (purpure, or purple), and has a tinctures problem in that you don't have good contrast between the sable (black) and the vert (green) and purpure (purple).
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Trotxâ
Talossan since 10-17-2005; Knight since 11-5-2006
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Posts: 1,574
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Post by Trotxâ on Feb 6, 2008 10:02:56 GMT -6
I believe the artisans in the basement were going to fine tune it, and present it in the next day or so. Dang. The pneumatic tube system between our offices and the artists in the dungeon basement must be jammed again. Sometimes a full-sized heraldic crest gets jammed in there. I'll get the janitor to look into it.
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Trotxâ
Talossan since 10-17-2005; Knight since 11-5-2006
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Post by Trotxâ on Feb 6, 2008 10:17:45 GMT -6
Yeah, as it is the design is a little too complex (I figure 9 - five tinctures, three charges, one subordinary), uses a non-standard tincture (purpure, or purple), and has a tinctures problem in that you don't have good contrast between the sable (black) and the vert (green) and purpure (purple). Good eye. I'm less worried about the Purpure, and more about complexity and contrast. 8 is the maximum complexity. A lower complexity is better. What if the field is either Vert or Purpure and the bend were Or or Argent. The mullets could be either Purpure or Vert. This drops the complexity to 8 by dropping Sable, and increases the contrast. Additionally, the petitioner could drop either keys or fleur and double the remaining charge, to increase the balance and reduce complexity. Finally, the field charges could be either Or or Argent, instead of mixed. Any thoughts? -- Jaune Sabre Herald, Squirrel King at Arms PS: On this sub-board, we use the titles of the Fellows of the College, not the names. I ask all petitioners to keep this in mind.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Feb 6, 2008 10:39:20 GMT -6
Good Squirrel King and Bartleby Pursuivant, -
Thank you for your attention to this matter. S:reu Vürinalt has taken active interest in this matter, to the point that he has created the design himself.
Could I impose on you to also give a "layman's" wording of your suggestions, so that he (and others viewing this disussion) are completely aware of what is meant by your terms? While the terms are pretty basic, sometimes a person's eyes cross when Or , Argent, Vert or Purpure, are all bending in the same sentence.
This also may convince some of our fellow citizens to petition to become fellows to the College, by sparking thier interest in our work.
Or not.
-Oddfellow.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Feb 6, 2008 11:30:43 GMT -6
Could I impose on you to also give a "layman's" wording of your suggestions, so that he (and others viewing this disussion) are completely aware of what is meant by your terms? While the terms are pretty basic, sometimes a person's eyes cross when Or , Argent, Vert or Purpure, are all bending in the same sentence. I provided common terms for all of the tinctures I referenced. Tincture basically means colour. But heraldry distinctions between "colours" per se (vert/green, gules/red, sable/black, purpure/purple) and "metals" (argent/silver/white, or/gold/yellow). The heraldic colours and metals together are tinctures. Complexity refers to how complex the design is. Basically you calculate the complexity by counting up all the tinctures and design elements. We consider 8 points of complexity to be the maximum. The tincture problem I mentioned refers to the traditional rule that colours must appear on metals, or vice versa, in order to provide good contrast. Green stands out more against yellow or white than against blue, for example. This is because coats of arms were designed for identification purposes, and were intended to be recognisable from a distance. Interested parties can read more about these and other points of heraldry at the TCA's "getting started" page: www.kingdomoftalossa.net/index.cgi?lingo=&page=ArmsBasic
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Trotxâ
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Post by Trotxâ on Feb 6, 2008 13:13:23 GMT -6
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Feb 6, 2008 13:29:57 GMT -6
Thank you, my friends.
Hopefully this will stimulate others to delve into the rules and concepts of Heraldry!
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EM Vürinalt
Citizen since 12-20-2007
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Post by EM Vürinalt on Feb 6, 2008 13:34:38 GMT -6
Thank you, my friends. Hopefully this will stimulate others to delve into the rules and concepts of Heraldry! Heraldry is truly a fascinating thing...to bad it has to be so confusing.
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Trotxâ
Talossan since 10-17-2005; Knight since 11-5-2006
Deo duce, ferro comitante
Posts: 1,574
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Post by Trotxâ on Feb 9, 2008 0:05:35 GMT -6
Yeah, as it is the design is a little too complex (I figure 9 - five tinctures, three charges, one subordinary), uses a non-standard tincture (purpure, or purple), and has a tinctures problem in that you don't have good contrast between the sable (black) and the vert (green) and purpure (purple). As the Bartleby Pursuivant points out, the previous blazon has a problem with complexity. It is so complex that I was befuddled. I calculated the complexity, and came up with at a complexity of 10: 1 field division (per bend), 1 ordinary (bend) 5 tinctures (purpure, or, vert, argent and sable) and 3 charges (fleur-de-lis, mullets and keys) === 10 Please check me to see if I'm over-calculating. -- JSH, SKA
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Feb 9, 2008 0:32:19 GMT -6
A NEW RECORD!
We so rule.
Oh...wait....
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EM Vürinalt
Citizen since 12-20-2007
Parletz, am?c, en entrez
Posts: 979
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Post by EM Vürinalt on Feb 9, 2008 7:19:33 GMT -6
Yeah, as it is the design is a little too complex (I figure 9 - five tinctures, three charges, one subordinary), uses a non-standard tincture (purpure, or purple), and has a tinctures problem in that you don't have good contrast between the sable (black) and the vert (green) and purpure (purple). As the Bartleby Pursuivant points out, the previous blazon has a problem with complexity. It is so complex that I was befuddled. I calculated the complexity, and came up with at a complexity of 10: 1 field division (per bend), 1 ordinary (bend) 5 tinctures (purpure, or, vert, argent and sable) and 3 charges (fleur-de-lis, mullets and keys) === 10 Please check me to see if I'm over-calculating. -- JSH, SKA Woo baby. Well I'd certainly like to help get my arms to legal acceptability.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Feb 9, 2008 8:49:24 GMT -6
Woo baby. Well I'd certainly like to help get my arms to legal acceptability. What do you think of the suggestions to that end made by SKA above? For example, (1) making the field either all vert or all purpure, (2) reversing the tinctures on the bend (I interpreted it as a bendlet, because it looks too narrow for a proper bend), and (3) making the metals either all argent or all or and using either two fleurs-de-lis or two pairs of keys instead of one of each. The design would be made legal by fixing number 2 and either number 1 or number 3.
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EM Vürinalt
Citizen since 12-20-2007
Parletz, am?c, en entrez
Posts: 979
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Post by EM Vürinalt on Feb 9, 2008 13:24:02 GMT -6
Woo baby. Well I'd certainly like to help get my arms to legal acceptability. What do you think of the suggestions to that end made by SKA above? For example, (1) making the field either all vert or all purpure, (2) reversing the tinctures on the bend (I interpreted it as a bendlet, because it looks too narrow for a proper bend), and (3) making the metals either all argent or all or and using either two fleurs-de-lis or two pairs of keys instead of one of each. The design would be made legal by fixing number 2 and either number 1 or number 3. I wouldn't mind having all vert or all purpure, and I'm open to reversing the tinctures of the bend and the stars. I would perfer to keep my keys and fleur-de-lis, but if they have to be one tincture, I'd certainly like all gold (should the field be purpure) or all silver (if the field be vert). Would it be legal to keep an all vert or all purpure field without having to reverse the colors of the bend and stars??
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