Submitting a flag...

[Deleted]

Azul,

Many of you may have seen the flag already being spoken about on the Vuode board, but, as par 35 RZ24, we are submitting our flag design for work, scrutiny, and hopefully, approval by the vexillologists.

We plan on moving the words completely into the white, but I do not believe flags have to follow the heraldry law.




Viteu

[Dréu Gavárþic'h]

vitooliver said:

We plan on moving the words completely into the white, but I do not believe flags have to follow the heraldry law.

Viteu

We base this off of such flags as:
The flag of Bangladesh
The flag of Taiwan

Both which don't follow heraldry

[Trotxâ]

vitooliver said:

Many of you may have seen the flag already being spoken about on the Vuode board, but, as par 35 RZ24, we are submitting our flag design for work, scrutiny, and hopefully, approval by the vexillologists.

We plan on moving the words completely into the white, but I do not believe flags have to follow the heraldry law.

The College of Arms thanks you for helping us obey the law of the land. You are correct in stating that vexillology and heraldry are seperate arts. However, this does not mean that the vexillogical arts are not without standards.

The Royal Academy of Vexillology is the office of the College of Arms that advises His Majesty on issues relating to the flags, banners and standards of the Realm. Since Talossa is part of North America, the Royal Academy follows the standards set down by the North American Vexillological Association (NAVA) <www.nava.org>.

NAVA has developed a specific set of standards for flag design. Anyone proposing to develop a flag, banner or standard is encouraged to review the NAVA publication Good Flag, Bad Flag, available here:
www.nava.org/Flag%20Design/GFBF/index.html

In brief, the NAVA standards can be expressed like this:

THE FIVE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF FLAG DESIGN
1. The flag should be so simple that a child can draw it from memory . . .
2. The flag’s images, colors, or patterns should relate to what it symbolizes . . .
3. Limit the number of colors on the flag to three, which contrast well and come from the standard color set . . .
4. Never use writing of any kind or an organization’s seal . . .
5. Avoid duplicating other flags, but use similarities to show connections . . .

It appears that your proposal blatantly fails to measure up to principles #3 and #4. It will take some study to determine if your proposal passes muster on principles #1 #2 and #5. (I have a number of children that we'll use to check compliance with number 1, when we get there.)

That being said - your proposal is better than this flag, which scored a miserable 1.59 on a 10 high scale in the NAVA 2004 City Flag Survey.

We of the College hope that this information will help you design a distinctive and memorable design. Please let us know how we can help.

-- Jaune Sabre Herald, Squirrel King at Arms

[Dréu Gavárþic'h]

Personally, I don't think I could draw the old flag from memory...

[Trotxâ]

alexandreu said:

We base this off of such flags as:
The flag of Bangladesh
The flag of Taiwan

Both (sic) which don't follow heraldry

Thank you for your clarification. Since neither of these flags are connected to Talossa, this design fails NAVA principle #5 (above).

Please review the Good Flag, Bad Flag publication. You will find it to be most instructive.

-- Jaune Sabre Herald, Squirrel King at Arms

[Trotxâ]

alexandreu said:

Personally, I don't think I could draw the old flag from memory...

Your one-line reply prompts two responses:

1. The current flag was designed before the establishment of the College of Arms and the Royal Academy of Vexillology.
2. Argue for your limitations, and they will become yours.

-- Jaune Sabre Herald, Squirrel King at Arms

[Deleted]

Sir Troxta,

I am thrilled you are partaking in helping us do this. As a Vuodeanian yourself, your opinion carries great meaning, both as a fellow citizen of our great province, and a member of the College. Not to say other member's opinions are worthless, I value them all.

Now, onto the flag itself. The actual design of the flag (the doves and sword) was brainstorming. They idea for the doves came randomly from a clip art I had seen of those two doves drawn in a sky, not from another flag. the Sword was thought of to show that those in our province understand that peace comes at a price. I do not see a contradiction, the original design placed two daggers, one in the mouth of each dove, connecting to carry the liberty torch. But alas, the design was way to complicated. Drew did an excellent job designing the flag from my rambeling.

The background color scheme however is actual not of Bandladesh nor Taiwan. My apologies, but I do not know where my constitutant got that notion from, it was never brought up when the background was picked. We actually took the background from the back of the New York City flag, the colours are also that of (and I swear I just noticed it as I was walking on campus today) my school. I can understand if other citizens of Vuode would not like that, I personally liked it more when research was conducted showing the meanings of the colours. And I saw the colours as a good representation of Vuode.

Onto the drawing, I would imagine most children having a problem with the words, and if that is the case, we can work on those.

I am open to any suggestions you, other Vuodenese, and members of the college may have. Thank you for your time.

[Hooligan]

As a Florenciân, I have to put in a word here that I look with some jealousy on the activity level of the citizens of our sister province. Here is hoping that Sir Trotxâ, S:reu Toctviac'htéir, and other Vuodeans can indeed become the first Talossans in quite some time (certainly since I have been here, though Cézembreans deserve much more than an honourable mention) to get something substantive accomplished and their province kick-started again.

The proposal to improve the flag of Vuode is an excellent project, and should show how Vuodeans work together for the progress of their province, paying honour to their proud and storied history, and looking forward to a bright and creative future.

Here's to the Vuode Suffragents!

Hooligan

[Dréu Gavárþic'h]

vitooliver said:

The background color scheme however is actual not of Bandladesh nor Taiwan. My apologies, but I do not know where my constitutant got that notion from,

I wasn't saying that's where are flag came from... I was saying that those flags don't follow the laws of heraldry either.

[Trotxâ]

vitooliver said:

The actual design of the flag (the doves and sword) was brainstorming. They idea for the doves came randomly from a clip art I had seen of those two doves drawn in a sky, not from another flag. the Sword was thought of to show that those in our province understand that peace comes at a price. I do not see a contradiction, the original design placed two daggers, one in the mouth of each dove, connecting to carry the liberty torch. But alas, the design was way to complicated.

S:reu Viteu-

In the name of the College, I thank you for your efforts on behalf of the women and long oppressed men of Vuode. My previous communications were not meant as discouraging words, nor were they intended to denigrate your proposal. I only wish to instruct you on the problems with your proposal.

To wit:

• Unfortunately, words are not allowed on a flag (how would it look in reverse?)
  
• Partially placing coloured doves on the tricoloured field causes problems of contrast.
  
• Right now, your proposal displays six colours (azul, argent, tenne, gules, vert and sable). The standard number of allowable colours is three.
  
• The symbolism of the doves is contradicted by the sword. This mixed message is unclear.
  

vitooliver said:

The background color scheme however is actual not of Bangladesh nor Taiwan. My apologies, but I do not know where my constituent got that notion from.

This is an understandable miscommunication. Note that some Fellows of the College have become quite familiar with the the design impulses of your constituent. We thank you in advance for your patience.

vitooliver said:

I can understand if other citizens of Vuode would not like that, I personally liked it more when research was conducted showing the meanings of the colours. And I saw the colours as a good representation of Vuode.

Please understand that my concerns are not with the colours you have chosen, but instead, my concerns have focused on the number of colours and their arrangement. This can be fixed.

vitooliver said:

I am open to any suggestions you, other Vuodenese, and members of the college may have. Thank you for your time.

The only suggestion coming to mind would radically alter your design, and I hesitate to do that. The role of the College is to advise and make recommendations. Please let us know how we can assist you.

-- Jaune Sabre Herald, Squirrel King at Arms

P.S: One more thing:

vitooliver said:

Sir Troxta

You probably didn't know this, but please remember that the College stands on formality and titles. No harm, no foul, just an unseeming familiarity in the halls of the College. When people say "that's old school", the Old School to which they refer is the Royal College of Arms.

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

Methinks that if you are going to portray doves of peace, one would also portray them in white, the common and accepted method.

Coloring them Red and Green, reduces their symbolism of "purity, honesty, and peace".

But what do I know, I'm new here

-Mick

Odd Fellow at Large

[Deleted]

As I have stated, I have no problem with taking the words off the flag. As far as the colours of the doves, I saw that as a kind of homiage to us being Talossan. they may be white and moved to each of the other tri colours (one on orange and the other blue).

And as I stated, the sword between the doves symbolizes that while we believe in peace, we understand it comes at a price, and we're willing to fight for peace (if that is not a contradiction in terms) when it is needed, as well as purity and honesty.

[Dréu Gavárþic'h]

My dear Immigration Minister, should I post a new draft with the words removed?

[Dréu Gavárþic'h]

here's an updated version with no words:

[Deleted]

I may catch some flak for this, but I cannot say that I entirely like removing 2 of the 5 colours from our flag. I do not understand why we must be restricted to 3 colours if the colours we are using are simple ROYGBIV. It is not like we're going through the crayola box to find the most absurd colours.