52nd Cosa, 6th Clark - February 2019 - Results

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Feb 23, 2019 17:28:42 GMT -6 Lüc da Schir said:

I wonder if Talossa will get an apology for all the present vitriol in another 10+ years. (Maybe by then the Cabinet's Code of Conduct will have been thoroughly read.)

I doubt it, since Epic never apologised for publicly dragging me. And the SoS never apologised for writing hate mail to the Cultural Development Secretary. You see how it works? Bad behaviour can always be justified by "those guys did something bad first, so I did nothing wrong". And we always make excuses for the people on "our side".

I must repeat that if people think that what V is doing is specially and uniquely horrible, but don't see any problem with AD repeatedly accusing his political opponents of corruption, then there is something wrong in our political culture.

[King John]

Yup, Stalin. He also suspended people's on-line accounts, sometimes for many hours.

Funny if it weren't so pathetic.

[Gödafrïeu Válcadác’h]

Feb 23, 2019 19:11:08 GMT -6 King John said:

Yup, Stalin. He also suspended people's on-line accounts, sometimes for many hours.

Funny if it weren't so pathetic.

In other news, what will be your action on the whole of the actionable Clark? I want to Scribe stuff this week, if possible, and I cannot do same until we get the royal response. Many thanks!

[Sevastáin Pinátsch]

This is some thread. Not sure which of you is driving anymore. Seems like it's in shifts.

[Viteu Marcianüs]

Feb 23, 2019 17:28:42 GMT -6 Lüc da Schir said:

Feb 23, 2019 16:23:55 GMT -6 Viteu Marcianüs said:

Stalin, you're not my fucking father. You dont get to punish me. Your goal of getting me to cool down is having the opposite effect. Every post you make outside of your place as nothing more than a face for this country is a very insult to my existence. 

Yes, over ten years ago, when I was still a new citizen, I was presented with the question of who should be monarch. I had no history of Talossa. When I asked about the Republic, it was dismissed as a bunch of traitors who had no real gripe.  And I accepted yours and the RUMPs representation.  Over 10+ years I've seen first hand that you're a cancer to this country. I regret my vote back then and apologize to Talossa for the shit judgment of a 20-year-old in casting that vote.  You deserve no applogy, only scorn. 

I wonder if Talossa will get an apology for all the present vitriol in another 10+ years. (Maybe by then the Cabinet's Code of Conduct will have been thoroughly read.)

 No. Perhaps you can point me to which part of the Cabinet's Code of Conduct I am violating? 

[Viteu Marcianüs]

Feb 23, 2019 19:11:08 GMT -6 King John said:

Yup, Stalin. He also suspended people's on-line accounts, sometimes for many hours.

Funny if it weren't so pathetic.

 Tyranny is tyranny no matter how you slice it. If you weren't too stupid to realize that, we may actually get somewhere. 

[Lüc da Schir]

Feb 23, 2019 17:49:15 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

Feb 23, 2019 17:28:42 GMT -6 Lüc da Schir said:

I wonder if Talossa will get an apology for all the present vitriol in another 10+ years. (Maybe by then the Cabinet's Code of Conduct will have been thoroughly read.)

I doubt it, since Epic never apologised for publicly dragging me. And the SoS never apologised for writing hate mail to the Cultural Development Secretary. You see how it works? Bad behaviour can always be justified by "those guys did something bad first, so I did nothing wrong". And we always make excuses for the people on "our side".

I must repeat that if people think that what V is doing is specially and uniquely horrible, but don't see any problem with AD repeatedly accusing his political opponents of corruption, then there is something wrong in our political culture.

We all know what AD is doing, don't worry, he's been called out a few posts earlier in this same thread. That can't be an excuse for V's shameful attitude. They're equally to blame for the current situation, and you are too, if you keep enabling him.

(Also, tbh, I can't speak for Glüc, but I think it's even with Epic. I sided with you in the Cabinet debate on his behavior, gave you the CoC you asked for, and he hasn't even engaged with Talossa since.)

[Lüc da Schir]

Feb 24, 2019 9:43:43 GMT -6 Viteu Marcianüs said:

Feb 23, 2019 17:28:42 GMT -6 Lüc da Schir said:

I wonder if Talossa will get an apology for all the present vitriol in another 10+ years. (Maybe by then the Cabinet's Code of Conduct will have been thoroughly read.)

 No. Perhaps you can point me to which part of the Cabinet's Code of Conduct I am violating? 

Yup:

• Provision 2: "Cabinet members will also strive to maintain a professional conduct while interacting with the general public and/or other officers of State while exercising their functions."
• Provision 3: "[...] Regardless of personal differences, Cabinet members serve Talossa and her people, and are expected to keep that in mind while dealing with each other, behaving in a professional manner in public and private engagements."

The Code of Conduct doesn't say "If AD open his mouth, everything is fair game". And frankly, if you need to be reminded that there's a code of conduct to behave like a human being, then maybe you shouldn't be in Cabinet in the first place.

Again: you and AD aren't swinging at each other in a protected cage, you're tearing Talossa down. The sooner you all realise that, the higher the odds of Talossa being able to enjoy a nice 40th birthday in a few months' time.

[Ian Plätschisch]

Feb 24, 2019 9:43:43 GMT -6 Viteu Marcianüs said:

Feb 23, 2019 17:28:42 GMT -6 Lüc da Schir said:

I wonder if Talossa will get an apology for all the present vitriol in another 10+ years. (Maybe by then the Cabinet's Code of Conduct will have been thoroughly read.)

 No. Perhaps you can point me to which part of the Cabinet's Code of Conduct I am violating? 

Well, since you asked:

Cabinet members will also strive to maintain a professional conduct while interacting with the general public and/or other officers of State while exercising their functions.

I regret I did not do a better job upholding this as Prime Minister.

[EDIT: Did not see the above post before posting this]

[Viteu Marcianüs]

Note that each says "strive to" and not "must."  

I have strived to exercise restraint but find myself unable to do so when presented with such nonsensical demagoguery, relentless libelous accusations of corruption and deception, and bad-faith conduct by AD and the King. 

If Alex is willing to start engaging in good faith politicking, retracts all of his prior libelous statements about me (including the accusations of corruption and perchance for physical violence), I would consider stopping.

Consider a few factors.

In every single act on which I am named, AD finds some way to vote contra or abstain.

Let's review:

52RZ5 - Budget for the 52d Cosa. - AD abstains.

52RZ6 - An Act to Remove Ben-Ard - AD votes contra.

52RZ17 - Judiciary Reformation Amendment - AD votes contra.

    (to this - I posted the Amendment and made changes, alex essentially waits to the last minute to try to derail it.) 
52RZ19 - Amendment to Org Law - AD votes contra.

52RZ20 - Covenant of Rights and Freedom - AD votes contra.


Let's also review some of the libel that Alex is spreading about me:


(1) I engaged in corruption because I asked the Cort to revisit ESB's case, and after expiration of the several months that the Cort provided the public,sua sponte, to file their feelings on the matter, I opposed him seeking leave to continue the case by coming in late.


(2) The Proposed Org Law that I presented was an attempt to sneak things in to which Talossans were opposed. This ingores that five drafts were posted before the Committee took over the project, that many of those drafts were available to anyone with a Google account to edit freely, and that I encouraged everyone, RUMP and others, to participate.


(3) That I engaged in corruption because I voiced opposition to the Government granting him funds for his failed newspaper. He ignores that a question was presented to the Cabinet, and I raised concerns that, based on the foregoing, he would seek to abuse that funding. I posted three times, in total, expressing my distrust. That was it. My opinion was sought, and I obliged. Somehow answering that inquiry is tantamount to corruption.


(4) Alex now claims that I intend to escalate this off-line with in-person physical violence. Seriously?!? 

Alex has continued to attack me and lie about me since I returned to Talossa. He requested, and received, funding for his newspaper, but failed to publish it after it was revealed that he was seeking to do nothing else but publish a hit piece on me and Miestra.
And then he has the audacity to gaslight me and claim to be a victim? 

You expect me to just turn a blind eye to all of this?
Look, I'll be the first to admit my behavior is not professional; that it's uncouth. I'm not refuting that. But I firmly believe it's justified.

Turning to John, the only time he seems to care to comment on anything in Talossa is to attack me. He's logged in and posted to Witt more times in the last 48 hours than, I'd wager, in the entire time of the 52nd Government. It literally took a number of posts reminding him of his Organic responsibility to grant your request to appoint Miestra Distain. To wit, he still hasn't assented or vetoed the last Clark. Still.


But he finds time to suspend my account, and then after I obtain a Cort order to reinstate the account, he accuses the Cort of engaging in a fiat by blocking his arbitrary Wittiquette rules that, as he applied, violated multiple provisions of the Organic Law.

Let's be clear here- I disagree with the Cort's limited order, but it acted responsively. John maintains that he has some magical Organic or Statutory Authority to just go around suspending accounts based on behavior he subjectively finds offensive. 

Yet still you expect me to respond professionally? So what you're actually saying is, I can call the King a tyrant, but I can't call him a fucking tyrant.

Because somehow "fucking" makes it "uniquely horrible." You know, after living through the US election in 2016, and watching the erosion of the Rule of Law, when people justify voting for a racist, homophobic, misogynist piece of shit by saying, "I don't agree with everything he says/does," and support that person affirmatively working to deprive me of my civil rights, I don't give a shit with how nice they are or how "civil" their language is. Give me the "fuck you; I hate gays" protester over the "have dinner with us while we vote against your ability to exist in our country" any day of the week. That is the difference that you both fail to grasp - people like John and AD aren't being honest; they're cloaking their nefarious motives in civility. This is exactly why the US has people like Richard Spencer. 

This is odd. But political insults are long part of the US's tradition, notwithstanding John's feeling that they are "uncivil." Let's review.


(1) John Adams, in referring to Alexander Hamilton, quipped, "The bastard brat of Scottish peddler. His ambitious, his restlessness and his grandiose schemes come, I'm convinced, form a superabundance of secretions, which he couldn't find enough whores to absorb."


(2) John Adams about George Washington - "That Washington is not a scholar of certain. That he is too illiterate, unlearned, unread for his station is equally beyond dispute."


(3) John Adams about Benjamin Frankly - "His whole life has been one continued insult to good manners and to decency."


(4) US Rep John Sherman (R-OH) on President James Buchanan, "The Constitution provides for every contingency in the Executive, except a vacancy in the mind of the President."


(5) John Lewis, President of the United Mine Workers of America on then-VP John Garner - he is a "labor-baiting, poker-playing, whiskey-drinking evil old man."


(6) President LBJ to an aid regarding Gerald Ford - "You've got a little baby boy. Well, you take his little building blocks and go up and explain to Jerry Ford what we're trying to do."


(7) US Senator Stephen Young once said to a constituent, "You sir, can have intercourse with yourself."


In light of No. 7, and keeping with the fine tradition of political insults inherited from Talossa's parent country, John can go have intercourse with himself! (Because at least I didn't use profanity!)


And with that, I'll quote Benjamin Frankly, who, when confronted with the pretentiousness of the Royal Academy of Brussels, authored A Letter to a Royal Academy about farting, "Fart for freedom; fart for liberty--and fart proudly."

Luc and Ian, I understand that you both have worked hard for Talossa.  I have worked hard as well. But neither of us you have had your work subject to sustained warfare by the Crown and RUMP (Alex) the way that Miestra and I have. Neither of you have had every time you even think about logging into Talossa to be questioned, to have accusations of corruption or that I will turn physically violent levied at you. When you have, I'll be sure to note how well you "strived to" maintain professional conduct. I generally like you both, whatever your feelings are towards me, but I'll refrain from taking lessons/advice about morality and decorum from either of you two. I acknowledge the detrimental effect that this is having on Talossa, but I think airing the long-built-up tensions will allow some resolution in the end. I'm not nearly as infuriated as I was last week. So if that helps, great. But start applying the same standards to everyone and recognize that John and AD's actions are just as egregious as mine. 

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

As to Cabinet Code of Conduct: although V is no longer Distáin, I was going to keep him around as "Minister without Portfolio" until the election was over.

While I personally believe that while his political criticisms of the King and of Sir Alexandreu are totally justified, the insults and personal abuse are counterproductive. What do the broad masses who think I'm "enabling" said insults think I should do? Threaten him with dismissal from Cabinet, even though he no longer has an actual job? I'm not sure that would have much effect, but I'm willing to give it a go.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Feb 24, 2019 12:03:35 GMT -6 Lüc da Schir said:

We all know what AD is doing, don't worry, he's been called out a few posts earlier in this same thread.

With respect, no, I don't think it's been made clear enough that you do understand what AD is doing. Can you clarify what you think he's doing and why you think it's wrong? I honestly think AD gets handled with kid gloves by people who don't understand why what he does is just as corrosive as yelling swear words.

[Viteu Marcianüs]

Feb 24, 2019 15:11:05 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

As to Cabinet Code of Conduct: although V is no longer Distáin, I was going to keep him around as "Minister without Portfolio" until the election was over.

While I personally believe that while his political criticisms of the King and of Sir Alexandreu are totally justified, the insults and personal abuse are counterproductive. What do the broad masses who think I'm "enabling" said insults think I should do? Threaten him with dismissal from Cabinet, even though he no longer has an actual job? I'm not sure that would have much effect, but I'm willing to give it a go.

To make Miestrâ's life easier, I'll refrain from swearing and the insults for the time being. Note that this is a professional courtesy because I genuinely like Miestrâ, Ian, and Lüc. 

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

I'm going to abide by what I said and continue to stay out of this, but just wanted to note that I was not implying V would be violent. I was referring to legal threats, where he said that I should hire an attorney in my home state (which he named, even though I have moved and didn't tell anyone here!) because speaking about him was defamation. The idea that I was saying he was physically dangerous is wrong, although I can see how it could be misinterpreted that way and I apologize.

I'll return to noncommentary as over the past couple of days (so as not to make things even more worse inadvertently), with the hope that some actual solution to this state of affairs is found by wiser people than I (eg virtually anyone!)

[Viteu Marcianüs]

Yes. You never posted pics of the house you bought or the state in which you bought it in the Chatroom.