The Humanity is For Everyone Amendment

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

WHEREAS the Organic Law and, especially the Covenant of Rights, has been designed for the protection of the people against the state and other people; and,
WHEREAS it seems to be against any humanitarian reason that the Covenants are only guaranteed to Citizens of Talossa, but not eventual refugees we might get, or tourists, prospectives, or visitors; and,
WHEREAS I would like to think that we have no policy of Guantánamobaying non-Talossan citizens when they commit any crime; now

THEREFORE the Ziu approves that following change of the Organic Law's Preamble of the Covenant of Rights be commended to the citizenry for ratification:

Org.XIX.1, which in the first sentence currently reads followingly:

The Covenant of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in them to all Talossan citizens, subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

shall be changed thus:

The Covenant of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in them to every man, woman and child regardless of nationality or any other physical or mental aspect, subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

Uréu q'estadra så: Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun (MP/MRPT)

[Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă]

A couple things:

First,the title needs to make it clear this is an amendment.
Second, your "therefore" section is worded kind of weirdly "the Ziu approves and recommends to the citizenry" instead of "approve the Ziu that the citizenry be commended."
Third, why is this necessary? Do other nations specifically include all peoples of the earth in their bills of rights?

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

1.) Done
2.) Fine, done
3.) Yes, it is necessary.

I am having a glance at Germany's "Grundgesetz" and while it says "Deutsches Volk" (German people) in the Preamble, it goes on to speak of the inviolability of human dignity and every community for justice and peace in the world.
Furthermore, it states that:

(1) Every person shall have the right to free development of his personality insofar as he does not violate the rights of others or offend against the constitutional order or the moral law.
(2) Every person shall have the right to life and physical integrity. Freedom of the person shall be inviolable. These rights may be interfered with only pursuant to a law.

However, looking at the Covenant of Rights, I always see mentioning of just Talossan citizens. Example:
Talossans have the right to peaceful assembly whether in private facilities or in the open air, provided that such assembly neither disrupts traffic or legal commercial activity, or unduly inconveniences people. Talossans have the right to freely organize political parties and other organizations, subject to their own laws of membership, and this right may not be abridged except with regards to organizations which advocate the use of violence or intimidation to attain political or other ends, or which seek to restrain any person or group of people from the exercise of their rights as granted under these Covenants.

I am thinking of widening the bill, so this reads "every person" instead of "Talossans".

[C. Carlüs Xheraltescù]

In theory, I can see why this bill might be necessary. It clarifies that people who just pass through Talossa (since we have no border controls) are protected by the same freedoms and such as we are. In practice, I'm a little more cynical given that there's no way we can realistically protect the rights and freedoms of Talossans who live abroad either. This seems like a rather common sense amendment though, I suppose.

[Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă]

Feb 18, 2014 15:18:27 GMT -6 Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun said:

1.) Done
2.) Fine, done
3.) Yes, it is necessary.

Oh please don't make revisions if you don't like them but as a non-native speaker of English sometimes the rules of grammar aren't that easy (emphasis was added by me) and it isn't a criticism when someone tries to help make writing more clear. Also, not to be picky, but the section is still worded oddly "the Ziu approves the (not that) following change to (not of)."

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

"the Ziu approves the following change be commended"? I thought "the Ziu approves that (the) following change be commended to the citizenry" were legit. Has anyone else got objections?

[Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă]

Feb 18, 2014 15:38:52 GMT -6 Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun said:

I thought "the Ziu approves that (the) following change be commended to the citizenry" were legit.

But that's not what your bill says. If the "the" were included I'd be completely ok with the wording.

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

Feb 18, 2014 13:31:10 GMT -6 Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun said:

WHEREAS the Organic Law and, especially the Covenant of Rights, has been designed for the protection of the people against the state and other people; and,
WHEREAS it seems to be against any humanitarian reason that the Covenants are only guaranteed to Citizens of Talossa, but not eventual refugees we might get, or tourists, prospectives, or visitors; and,
WHEREAS I would like to think that we have no policy of Guantánamobaying non-Talossan citizens when they commit any crime; now

THEREFORE the Ziu approves that following change of the Organic Law's Preamble of the Covenant of Rights be commended to the citizenry for ratification:

Org.XIX.1, which in the first sentence currently reads followingly:

The Covenant of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in them to all Talossan citizens, subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

shall be changed thus:

The Covenant of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in them to every man, woman and child regardless of nationality or any other physical or mental aspect, subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

Uréu q'estadra så: Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun (MP/MRPT)

Right, I see my amendment, and raise me this:

WHEREAS the Organic Law, and especially, the Covenant of Rights have been designed for the protection of the people against the state and other people; and,
WHEREAS it seems to be against any humanitarian reason that the Covenants are only guaranteed to Citizens of Talossa, but not eventual refugees we might get, or tourists, prospectives, or visitors; and,
WHEREAS I would like to think that we have no policy of Guantánamobaying non-Talossan citizens when they commit any crime; now

THEREFORE the Ziu approves that the following changes to the Organic Law's Covenant of Rights be commended to the citizenry for ratification:

1. Org.XIX, Preamble, which in the first sentence currently reads followingly:
   
   The Covenant of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in them to all Talossan citizens, subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.
   
   shall be changed thus:
   
   The Covenant of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in them to every man, woman and child regardless of nationality or any other physical or mental aspect, subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.
   
   
2. Org.XIX, Third Covenant, which reads:
   
   Talossans have the right to peaceful assembly whether in private facilities or in the open air, provided that such assembly neither disrupts traffic or legal commercial activity, or unduly inconveniences people. Talossans have the right to freely organize political parties and other organizations, subject to their own laws of membership, and this right may not be abridged except with regards to organizations which advocate the use of violence or intimidation to attain political or other ends, or which seek to restrain any person or group of people from the exercise of their rights as granted under these Covenants.
   
   shall be changed in such fashion, that both words "Talossans" shall read "every person" and the verbal conjugations be amended according to the change, reading followingly:
   
   Every person has the right to peaceful assembly whether in private facilities or in the open air, provided that such assembly neither disrupts traffic or legal commercial activity, or unduly inconveniences people. Every person has the right to freely organize political parties and other organizations, subject to their own laws of membership, and this right may not be abridged except with regards to organizations which advocate the use of violence or intimidation to attain political or other ends, or which seek to restrain any person or group of people from the exercise of their rights as granted under these Covenants.
   
   
3. Org.XIX, Eighth Covenant, of which the first sentence reads:
   
   Talossa shall never tax nor purport to tax, unduly burden, outlaw or abridge for its citizens any right to acts of: peaceful assembly; religious worship or affiliation; political speech or expression or affiliation; religious or historical or scientific or philosophical belief; abortion (being the freely conscious ability for a woman to make a determination on the continuation of her pregnancy); consensual sexual activity (between two consenting people of an age of responsibility); contraception; marriage (between consenting adults regardless of their sex, unless they are consanguineous up to the fourth degree of relationship), civil unions (and equivalents); divorce; adoption; advance health care directives; attempted suicide; euthanasia; the reading of any book; and the writing or use of any language.
   
   shall state the following:
   
   Talossa shall never tax nor purport to tax, unduly burden, outlaw or abridge for any person any right to acts of: peaceful assembly; religious worship or affiliation; political speech or expression or affiliation; religious or historical or scientific or philosophical belief; abortion (being the freely conscious ability for a woman to make a determination on the continuation of her pregnancy); consensual sexual activity (between two consenting people of an age of responsibility); contraception; marriage (between consenting adults regardless of their sex, unless they are consanguineous up to the fourth degree of relationship), civil unions (and equivalents); divorce; adoption; advance health care directives; attempted suicide; euthanasia; the reading of any book; and the writing or use of any language.
   
   

Uréu q'estadra så: Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun (MP/MRPT)

[Sir C. M. Siervicül]

Feb 18, 2014 15:18:27 GMT -6 Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun said:

However, looking at the Covenant of Rights, I always see mentioning of just Talossan citizens. Example:
Talossans have the right to peaceful assembly whether in private facilities or in the open air, provided that such assembly neither disrupts traffic or legal commercial activity, or unduly inconveniences people. Talossans have the right to freely organize political parties and other organizations, subject to their own laws of membership, and this right may not be abridged except with regards to organizations which advocate the use of violence or intimidation to attain political or other ends, or which seek to restrain any person or group of people from the exercise of their rights as granted under these Covenants.

I am thinking of widening the bill, so this reads "every person" instead of "Talossans".

Wouldn't this mean that Talossa would no longer have the ability to impose immigration controls?

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

I cannot see, how, since immigration laws are, in my opinion, one of the reasonable limits that are spoken of in this partial sentence: "(...), subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society."

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

This would seem a very problematic proposition when applied to the Third Covenant, and a bit confusing for the Twelfth and Thirteenth. I strongly recommend striking out your first clause (addition to the preamble), which makes things very complicated, and being more selective in your extensions of Organic protections to non-citizens. Specific additions to the fourth through eleventh Covenants might be more in order, adding on to the two you have already supplemented.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Feb 18, 2014 13:31:10 GMT -6 Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun said:

WHEREAS I would like to think that we have no policy of Guantánamobaying non-Talossan citizens when they commit any crime;

There's a man called Eiric I'd like to introduce you to.

But more seriously: this proposal has a long history. One of the problems with the Kingdom which rejected me way, way back in 1997 was that it was made clear that the Covenant only applied to citizens. We prospectives had no rights, and therefore the King and his Government could jerk us around, delay our citizenship for months on end, etc. When we formed Penguinea, we made it clear that "prospective citizens have the same civil rights as citizens". I think this is what MC da Lhiun is trying to do, and in that it's a very worthy gesture.

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

Feb 18, 2014 18:29:24 GMT -6 Sir Alexandreu Davinescu said:

This would seem a very problematic proposition when applied to the Third Covenant, and a bit confusing for the Twelfth and Thirteenth. I strongly recommend striking out your first clause (addition to the preamble), which makes things very complicated, and being more selective in your extensions of Organic protections to non-citizens. Specific additions to the fourth through eleventh Covenants might be more in order, adding on to the two you have already supplemented.

I see not, how this would be a "problematic proposition when applied to the Third Covenant".

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

Non-citizens should not be able to form or control Talossan political parties.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

How about prospectives? "Form or control" is a grey issue that could be used to shut down democratic debate; again, King Robert I slandered the Peace and Freedom Party because it was supported by ex-citizens like myself (I thought up the name).