Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jan 27, 2013 19:55:30 GMT -6
Hear freakin' hear. Talossan citizenship only for real people with a forename, a hindname, an address, and photo ID to back it up! Agreed -- that was the rule when I immigrated too. As an alternative to photo ID, we could maybe allow prospectives to prove their identity through a telephone call or an exchange of snail-mail, which I think was the practice in Penguinea (or the Republic? I forget which.). We should also consider moving the portfolio of Immigration to the Royal Household, enabling more Talossans to aid in the immigration process in good conscience. That might be a good idea, though it has been proposed in the past and I've resisted it before. Maybe a department of the SoS's office, since the SoS is responsible for citizenship grants and the citizen list. Even stupider that Benedict "Corncob" Stamford, the dimbulb who went from being insulting us to being one of our voters, was also Eric under an assumed name. Benedict was a citizen so much earlier than the others, I kind of wonder whether the real Benedict lost interest and Eric just guessed the password to his account or something.
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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Jan 27, 2013 20:02:16 GMT -6
It was indeed the practice in the Republic. I think the SoS is responsible for enough things as it is; I think we need a solid Office of the Royal Household in its own right to deal with matters specifically pertaining to Immigration.
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Jan 27, 2013 20:05:44 GMT -6
Benedict was a citizen so much earlier than the others, I kind of wonder whether the real Benedict lost interest and Eric just guessed the password to his account or something. "Benedict" showed up Jan 2012, around the time just before Reunision and when ex-Republicans began using this Wittenberg. This also around the time that one Joshua Scheunemann applied for citizenship. Joshua caused some trouble on the boards and didn't make it to full citizen status. I have come to believe in the past hour or so that Josh S. may also have been a 'sock puppet' in all of this. I hate gossip, but, a few weeks ago, I had a conversation with Eiric on Facebook where we spent about 45 mins to an hour discussing Benedict Stamford. Weird in hindsight. Anyway, all this to say that, no, I think Benedict was Eric all along.
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Post by Martì Prevuost on Jan 27, 2013 20:07:55 GMT -6
I just read his Getting to Know You thread and just noticed the "Con Man" epitaph beneath his avatar. It is a very interesting read - too bad it's probably a complete lie. MAG
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jan 27, 2013 20:11:57 GMT -6
All right, here's the news. Eric Kildow has been in contact with me. By his account, it was supposed to be a prank to make the loose immigration laws look stupid which has gotten out of hand. He realises he has blotted his Talossan copybook in a quite massive way.
I have counselled him to remain in Talossa, face trial before the Uppermost Cort, plead guilty and throw himself on the mercy of the Nation. He seems worried about being dragged into macronational court, though. I would prefer he face Talossan justice against the people he defrauded, so I wonder what the King feels on this issue?
Big kudos for our Head of State on handling this issue so well, by the way.
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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Jan 27, 2013 20:14:47 GMT -6
Well it worked!
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jan 27, 2013 20:39:33 GMT -6
By his account, it was supposed to be a prank to make the loose immigration laws look stupid which has gotten out of hand. This would have been more convincing if he had ever advocated immigration reform.
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Post by Iustì Carlüs Canun on Jan 27, 2013 20:52:23 GMT -6
I think the SoS is responsible for enough things as it is; I think we need a solid Office of the Royal Household in its own right to deal with matters specifically pertaining to Immigration. I'm in support of anything that doesn't add to the jobs I already have.
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Jan 27, 2013 20:54:12 GMT -6
We should also consider moving the portfolio of Immigration to the Royal Household, enabling more Talossans to aid in the immigration process in good conscience. That might be a good idea, though it has been proposed in the past and I've resisted it before. Maybe a department of the SoS's office, since the SoS is responsible for citizenship grants and the citizen list. As the guy who proposed it (a couple times, as I recall), I do remember that our King John joined Sir Cresti in the arguments that immigration policy is something the government of the day should set, and thus my attempts to move it to the Royal Household were unsuccessful. They are indeed sound arguments, and it seems like a good time to re-open the debate. Benedict was a citizen so much earlier than the others, I kind of wonder whether the real Benedict lost interest and Eric just guessed the password to his account or something. I have wondered about that too. Benedict was granted arms way back nearly a year ago now, and he renounced, then (apparently) unrenounced. I would not be surprised to find out that he himself was only portrayed by Eric in his second incarnation. EDIT: Just saw Eðo's post here. Seems to be that Benedict was always a puppet after all. Hool
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Jan 27, 2013 21:00:20 GMT -6
By his account, it was supposed to be a prank to make the loose immigration laws look stupid which has gotten out of hand. This would have been more convincing if he had ever advocated immigration reform. It also would have been more convincing if he had ever shown any evidence that the immigration laws had not been working just fine. You will notice that they grew this nation, with 100% real people, absolutely fine for years and years. It wasn't until someone chose to prove that they could be subverted that they ever were subverted. Every law can be broken. It is the lawbreaker, not the law, that is the problem. Let's hope Eric never decides that the laws against murder are too lax and he needs to make a point to some government somewhere. Hool
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Jan 27, 2013 21:02:46 GMT -6
EDIT: Just saw Eðo's post here. Seems to be that Benedict was always a puppet after all. Hool I might haste to add, that I merely speculate. It might be the case that Joshua S. was not involved in this at all. I was quite unwell and highly paranoid from late 2011 till fairly recently.
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Jan 27, 2013 21:05:33 GMT -6
This would have been more convincing if he had ever advocated immigration reform. It also would have been more convincing if he had ever shown any evidence that the immigration laws had not been working just fine. You will notice that they grew this nation, with 100% real people, absolutely fine for years and years. It wasn't until someone chose to prove that they could be subverted that they ever were subverted. Every law can be broken. It is the lawbreaker, not the law, that is the problem. Let's hope Eric never decides that the laws against murder are too lax and he needs to make a point to some government somewhere. Hool I couldn't have said it better myself (I was actually typing up a comment that the law was broken not because it is necessarily a bad law but because a bad person decided to break it)
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jan 27, 2013 21:06:31 GMT -6
All right. I have known Eric Kildow as a Talossan for 8 years or so. I've known that he has certain emotional issues at times, but he has never but NEVER given me any indication of such unethical, unTalossan behaviour. I have no idea why the King is even bringing up the ZRT as "Eric's party", though. Eric left the ZRT months ago to help found the NPW. But "Sariah" was elected to our Central Committee. Sariah, conveniently, was full of hate towards Eric for no reasons I could understand. The ZRT are therefore one of the prime victims here, fooled into electing a sock puppet to its leadership. I hope this wasn't a conspiracy and "Sariah" wasn't reporting our internal deliberations back to Peculiarist HQ so they could all have a good laugh. And the fact that - apparently - 1/3 of our vote in the last election was bogus is EXTREMELY upsetting. I think you might have misread, and do not see your quote anywhere. The King posted only the following things that reference political parties at all, and it does not seem to level any blame at the ZRT. To the contrary, in fact. The evidence against Börnatfiglheu is overwhelming and absolutely conclusive. (I will of course be making it all public, quite soon.) He has violated the Anti-Imposter and Liar Act (36RZ10) hundreds of times. He has subverted the Talossan electoral system, with eight of his sock puppets voting in the last General Election (all eight for the ZRT), and one of them currently being a ZRT Member of the Cosa. He has played us all for fools, most especially his own political party – which he has betrayed and manipulated – and the College of Arms, having used an enormous amount of volunteer time in obtaining Grants of Arms for most of his sock puppets. He has violated the trust of the entire country. It is probably also unwise to speculate about conspiracies by other parties or to politicize this matter unnecessarily. Let's just all be sad and work on solutions to increase our vigilance. I would also like to offer an apology to the people of Talossa who may feel cheated politically because of this deception. It's quite clear that the ZRT now possesses more seats than it legally deserves. I apologise wholeheartedly for this, and I offer my full co-operation to resolve the matter. Because it is already the last Clark, I believe that the horse is already out of the barn. The ZRT is certainly not accountable for the actions of one con-artist, even if they happened to benefit in a small way. I am sure that the rest of my party join with me in saying that we in no way blame your party or yourself - Talossa was the victim here, not any political party. All right, here's the news. Eric Kildow has been in contact with me. By his account, it was supposed to be a prank to make the loose immigration laws look stupid which has gotten out of hand. He realises he has blotted his Talossan copybook in a quite massive way. I have counselled him to remain in Talossa, face trial before the Uppermost Cort, plead guilty and throw himself on the mercy of the Nation. He seems worried about being dragged into macronational court, though. I would prefer he face Talossan justice against the people he defrauded, so I wonder what the King feels on this issue? Big kudos for our Head of State on handling this issue so well, by the way. The offender has already renounced and it has already been accepted, so if he is reconsidering, then unfortunately for him it is too late. There would not really be any basis for overturning the renunciation at this point, so it is a done deal. Barring any further fictions - which may not be a safe prospect - I'd say his Talossan experience is over. I can't say I have much sympathy, either. A year-long multi-level and deliberate hoax might have gone out of control, but he committed multiple counts of voter fraud, and never gave up until he was flat-out caught. This whole thing reminds me of nothing so much than Stephen Glass, the journalist at The New Republic who falsified dozens of stories, as depicted in the movie Shattered Glass (also notable as the only good thing by Hayden Christiansen). I concur with offering congratulations and thanks to Iusti, who has once more served his country. I would also be comfortable with increased verification procedures, although the laws would have to be written carefully. We have numerous privacy laws that would need to be amended or obeyed.
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Jan 27, 2013 21:22:12 GMT -6
I couldn't have said it better myself (I was actually typing up a comment that the law was broken not because it is necessarily a bad law but because a bad person decided to break it) Not to throw myself onto a fire needlessly, but, let's think about our choice of words here. Is Eric really a bad person or did he simply make a mistake and do a bad thing? I don't think for a minute he is a bad person.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jan 27, 2013 21:39:55 GMT -6
I would also like to offer an apology to the people of Talossa who may feel cheated politically because of this deception. It's quite clear that the ZRT now possesses more seats than it legally deserves. I apologise wholeheartedly for this, and I offer my full co-operation to resolve the matter. Just a real quick note - the SoS and I did review all the Bills that were presented in the current Cosa. None of them were decided on by a margin of less than 9 votes. We did not find issue with the actual passing or defeat of any bill.
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