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Post by Martì Prevuost on Jul 24, 2012 19:57:02 GMT -6
<ahem>
So back to the coalition question. While it doesn't say so "exactly", according to KoT.net, although not codified in StatLaw or OrgLaw, a coalition is a government which is formed IN ORDER to achieve a majority of the seats in the Cosa.
From the Government page on KoT.net:
"The political party or coalition that claims a majority in an election assembles a government during the remainder of the calendar month at the conclusion of the election, and the Ziu convenes on the first of the next month."
Not that it matters, but in my opinion, since in this case, the RUMP attained an outright majority ... regardless of party affiliation any of the Cabinet members appointed ... the Government is NOT a coalition.
MAG
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 24, 2012 19:57:56 GMT -6
Just trying to figure out the rules to your game, about when it's ok to make personal attacks, and when it isn't.
It's All Meistra, All the Time.
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Owen Edwards
Puisne Justice
Posts: 1,400
Talossan Since: 12-8-2007
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Post by Owen Edwards on Jul 24, 2012 20:02:20 GMT -6
No, it wasn't. I didn't describe unpleasant personal motives to him, I just disapproved of his behaviour. Daph, you're the one protesting the robust Republican style as justification for any politicking you do; when I respond with a little gentle teasing, said with a broad grin, you can't in all seriousness start complaining that I'm being mean. Look, I'll work better on my Ben impression, so you can be justly angry next time. I'm sorry I'm letting you down when the worst behaviour I'm offering is chuckling at your suggestion that the CSPP has unwittingly, without its leader's knowledge, slipped into a coalition to support the continued existence of the government because a member accepted, off his own back, a nonpolitical post.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 24, 2012 21:50:53 GMT -6
This is incredible. I only ever make political comments - meanwhile, the pretend "captain" Preston accuses me personally of being an egomaniac, while the Mellow Fellow sarcastically suggests that I'm dumb for not realising that the CSPP doesn't mind that its supporters accept RUMP cabinet positions.
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Post by Ceváglh Scurznicol on Jul 24, 2012 22:17:54 GMT -6
Being from a fellow Commonwealth parliamentary democracy, I tend to go with Miestra on the need for an opposition to criticize the government when it needs to be criticized. On the other hand, if Talossa wants to operated under consensus politics, I can point to Nunavut and the Northwest Territories as a Canadian example. And to tell you the truth, I get very tired of the Yeah-Boo politics that we get as a result of Government and Opposition, especially when you get someone like Harper who equates "Opposition" with "Enemy". But back to the first hand, a government needs someone on the outside to look at its bills with a clear eye, if only so that bills get examined by someone who wasn’t smoking whatever wacky tobacky was being passed around during the Cabinet meetings.
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Post by Ceváglh Scurznicol on Jul 24, 2012 22:20:47 GMT -6
It's All Miestra, All the Time. Isn’t that one of the channels that Elmo gets on his TV during episodes of Elmo’s World?
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 24, 2012 22:45:36 GMT -6
This is incredible. I only ever make political comments - meanwhile, the pretend "captain" Preston accuses me personally of being an egomaniac, while the Mellow Fellow sarcastically suggests that I'm dumb for not realising that the CSPP doesn't mind that its supporters accept RUMP cabinet positions. Actually, I've found a few quotes of yours that are NOT political (hint: "Mellow Fellow" is an Honorific assigned to a member of the College of Arms. Which is really, really not political). It's incredible that you really don't think it's "All Meistra, All the Time!". Because you change the rules every time you post, to fit your Agenda. Oh, wait... I meant the ZRT Agenda. My Bad.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 24, 2012 23:00:55 GMT -6
But back to the first hand, a government needs someone on the outside to look at its bills with a clear eye, if only so that bills get examined by someone who wasn’t smoking whatever wacky tobacky was being passed around during the Cabinet meetings. I totally agree with this statement. While the RUMP will post the occasional Bill in the Clark for consideration, they are always interested in how others feel about the Bills, and are willing to tweak (adjust) wording of the bill before it is asked to be Clarked.
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Üc R. Tärfâ
Talossan since 3-8-2005
Deputy Fiôván Secretary of State
Posts: 760
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Post by Üc R. Tärfâ on Jul 24, 2012 23:03:10 GMT -6
The point Eddie makes isn't made redundant by what you say; indeed, I'd say it's rather strengthened. Whose parliamentary democracy are we talking about here? Who makes the rules and determinations as to what one is and why do they make those decisions? Be honest. You're trying to say that there isn't any common trait and feature of parliamentaru democracies? They can have one chamber, two directly elected chambers, one elected chamber and one appointed, they could have a prime minister or Chancellor, they could have fixed. term elrction kr not.... Yes the systems are different of course: but the inner quality executive dependant from the legislative doesn't change.
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Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on Jul 25, 2012 1:31:31 GMT -6
But back to the first hand, a government needs someone on the outside to look at its bills with a clear eye, if only so that bills get examined by someone who wasn’t smoking whatever wacky tobacky was being passed around during the Cabinet meetings. I totally agree with this statement. While the RUMP will post the occasional Bill in the Clark for consideration, they are always interested in how others feel about the Bills, and are willing to tweak (adjust) wording of the bill before it is asked to be Clarked. In other words, the way the RUMP wants things to work, is not for people to vote for the party they prefer, but for everyone to be one big happy RUMP party and everyone will have a say regardless. Why do we have elections?
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 25, 2012 2:53:54 GMT -6
I think that in RUMP-world, elections are a regular spectator sport with no real-world consequences except bragging rights for the winner, like the World Cup or something.
Does the RUMP really see itself as a political party? Wouldn't it rather be a non-political embracing of all true monarchy-loyal Talossan citizens, which discusses and then enacts policies with a wide input from all areas of society? In other words, a similar political system to 1960s Spain?
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jul 25, 2012 3:43:05 GMT -6
Sure the RUMP is a political party. The American-style big-tent triangulating kind. Although I do wish it staked (stook?) out some clearer ideological ground.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 25, 2012 4:24:02 GMT -6
In some parts of America, there is only one big-tent party that wins every election. (In Ireland until recently, that was Fianna Fáil.) Such areas are not known to be bastions of democracy and clean government.
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Post by Béneditsch Ardpresteir, O.SPM. on Jul 25, 2012 4:31:57 GMT -6
Also, sack MinHome and MinFin as they're not elected. UNDEMOCRACY ARE BAD! Why forget me? Though am not a minister, I manage a ministry too
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jul 25, 2012 5:18:33 GMT -6
I think that in RUMP-world, elections are a regular spectator sport with no real-world consequences except bragging rights for the winner, like the World Cup or something. Does the RUMP really see itself as a political party? Wouldn't it rather be a non-political embracing of all true monarchy-loyal Talossan citizens, which discusses and then enacts policies with a wide input from all areas of society? In other words, a similar political system to 1960s Spain? This is strange. I feel like the RUMP campaigned fairly hard, engaging in a great deal of public debate and defense of our positions. We laid out a party platform with a variety of issues, and the voters elected us in a contested, free, and fair election. After the election, when the voters had chosen the RUMP to run the country, we decided that there were some Talossans not in the RUMP who would nonetheless be great to have in government - not surprising, since we have only 180 citizens. We asked if they would like to serve their country in that capacity. Those who declined, as in the ZRT, found their refusal met with courtesy and acknowledgment that such refusal was perfectly reasonable - or at least I like to think so. Those who serve are expected as individuals not to vote against the government of which they are a part, but no demands were made of their party, because we're not a coalition government in that sense - it's a RUMP government because the RUMP was chosen by the electorate. In this way, their ability to represent their constituencies from the opposition is not impaired, yet they also have the opportunity to serve Talossa and participate in government. While I can understand why the ZRT might choose to decline and stand in unmitigated opposition to all things RUMP - that's their right and there's nothing wrong with it - I cannot understand what seems to be contempt for those willing to work with members of another party. The election is over. While politics isn't over, and another election looms in the future, perhaps you can move down a notch. I guess it's good that you've moved from comparing the RUMP to Robert Mugabe's regime to the gentler and kind-hearted Franco regime of Spain. Maybe we should set a future goal, though, where you only compare the RUMP to regimes that have a bit less of a bloody body count, and treat your compatriots in opposition with the respect they deserve for being willing to step up and do some work for their country.
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