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Post by Veirnarac'h D. Lorentzescu on Nov 18, 2012 16:09:40 GMT -6
I've been looking at the links. But finding things that cannot be used, but aren't explicitly forbiddden, is a little difficult.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Nov 18, 2012 16:46:14 GMT -6
I would suggest that if you don't see it, it's not allowed. One of the ways I see if something is allowed is couple the term with the word "heraldry", and then use google. For example: "heraldry reindeer" - Brings about 2.5 Million replies. One of them is this link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reindeer#Heraldry_and_symbolsAnother is: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_heraldryIan's suggestion (The colors used on the Sami flag) is also a good starting point.
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Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
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Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on Nov 19, 2012 4:41:53 GMT -6
I would suggest that if you don't see it, it's not allowed. I know that I am an intruder here, and for that I apologise.
But I believe that the above quote is logically wrong.
If it were true, then after the very first CoA had been approved, then no other CoA could be created that is different. Moreover, it would become impossible to delineate the specific individual qualities of the armiger - each would have to bear what had been appropriate to someone else. And I do not believe that in (British) heraldry this is the case. Whether it is the case in Talossan heraldry is not, of course, for me to decide.
For example, the British Computer Society bears arms (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BCS_Cort_of_Arms.png [sic]), and these include as part of the charge a representation of a magnetic memory core. You will probably find it hard to locate another set of arms with that charge - but how appropriate for a Computer society.
If the half-ring were described as a demi annulet we would have the terminology already there.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
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Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
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Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Nov 19, 2012 7:47:56 GMT -6
S:reu Tamorán-
You are taking my comment out of context.
I was referring to the links I had posted previously, as for guidelines to lead the petitioner to what is acceptable.
It was not specific to just the Talossan CoA's. It is following the tradition of accepted and agreed upon devices used in all CoA's.
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Post by Veirnarac'h D. Lorentzescu on Nov 19, 2012 10:29:07 GMT -6
The demi-annulet is used in charges. The US Military institute of Heraldry notes that both the 50th Finance Battalion (US Army) and 16th Ordnance Battalion (US Army) make use of these figures. The 50th on the shield, the 16th in the crest.
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King John
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Post by King John on Nov 19, 2012 15:23:56 GMT -6
American military heraldry isn't always very *good* heraldry. But there's nothing wrong with a demi-annulet as such.
The problem with the sketch is that it violates the Marshalling Rule. To avoid the appearance of marshalling, any device per pale or quarterly must have a complex line (like per pale wavy), charges that cross the field division lines (for instance, per pale gules and azure three crowns in pale or), or identical charges over the entire field (as in quarterly argent and or four ogresses). And there can't be charges cut off at the division lines.
Furthermore (in the words of the rule) "Such fields may not be used if any single portion of the field might appear to be an independent piece of armory." Both sides of the sketch fail on this point. The dexter side would seem to be either a dimidiated half of Or an annulet gules, or else Or a demi-annulet issuant from sinister gules. The sinister side is simply Sable four barrulets argent. Either one "might appear to be an independent piece of armory".
In fact, this sketch fairly *screams* that it's composed of two separate pieces stuck together. Remember, good armory tends to favour unified, balanced designs.
— Blanc Wolf
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Nov 19, 2012 15:48:36 GMT -6
American military heraldry isn't always very *good* heraldry. But there's nothing wrong with a demi-annulet as such. Blanc Wolf That would explain why I previously couldn't find a reference to it - I don't normally search in that area.
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Post by Ceváglh Scurznicol on Nov 19, 2012 19:32:23 GMT -6
Could you not have the demi annulet moved a little bit to the left so the arms do not touch the dividing line? Then it would be clear that it is an arc all by itself, rather than half a circle.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Nov 19, 2012 20:02:43 GMT -6
I think people would see it as a letter " C " if he did that.
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Post by Veirnarac'h D. Lorentzescu on Nov 19, 2012 21:07:22 GMT -6
Or what if the demi-annulet arced in from another side? I only did it that way because I wanted to keep ok on the tincture rules.
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Post by Ceváglh Scurznicol on Nov 19, 2012 21:30:44 GMT -6
I think people would see it as a letter " C " if he did that. Well, so what? If he wanted a full circle, would you forbid it because people would see it as a letter " O "
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
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Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Nov 20, 2012 0:01:09 GMT -6
I think people would see it as a letter " C " if he did that. Well, so what? If he wanted a full circle, would you forbid it because people would see it as a letter " O " You do realize, that you aren't helping ....Right?
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Post by Veirnarac'h D. Lorentzescu on Nov 20, 2012 7:36:50 GMT -6
How about this? Does this take care of the Marsalling rule? Attachments:
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Post by Ceváglh Scurznicol on Nov 20, 2012 9:22:57 GMT -6
You do realize, that you aren't helping ....Right? Well, then, to say it more seriously: I don’t understand your objection to a semicircle all by itself, not touching the line dividing the shield in half, and so not looking as if it were half of someone else’s arms. In fact, the King seems to have said above that the shape in itself is an acceptable shape to put in the arms.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Nov 20, 2012 9:43:44 GMT -6
How about this? Does this take care of the Marsalling rule? That will work ! Sable five barrulets argent, overall a crescent reversed or. Thank you!
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