Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Jul 27, 2011 19:04:27 GMT -6
The Comme Ci, Comme Ça Act (Amendment) WHEREAS Section 5 of Article XIII of the Organic Law currently specifies that a Vote of Confidence be conducted in the Cosa during each and every Clark, and WHEREAS, as specified by the said Section of Organic Law, the only organic and legal effect of a Vote of Confidence is to determine upon the continuation of a Cosa or, alternately, upon the dissolution thereof, requiring an immediate General Election in order to establish the composition of the subsequent Cosa and to fill those Senate seats whose terms expire upon the conclusion of the current Cosa, and WHEREAS such dissolution and election happens automatically after the final Clark of a Cosa, regardless of the results of the Vote of Confidence, and WHEREAS it is utterly pointless to hold a vote of confidence which, no matter which way the vote goes, will not change one whit (nor even a microwhit) what will happen at the end of the current Clark, and WHEREAS at the time of the drafting of this bill, one of our bravest Cosa members is covertly embedded in French-mumbling Canada, busily gathering evidence to expose the horrors of that nation to the world, including its inhuman neglect and treatment of our national mammal, the proud and noble squirrel, so why not honour her courage and dedication and her intrepid mission by tossing some silly French phrase into our legislation?, and WHEREAS, as silly French phrases go, comme ci, comme ça is pretty good, and WHEREAS I think that the aforesaid silly French phrase means "like this, like that" as in "it doesn't really matter; both ways end up the same" (but then, I could be wrong, because well, it's French, so really, does anyone actually understand it?), now THEREFORE the Ziu of the Kingdom of Talossa does hereby recommend to the people in referendum the following resolution, that the wisdom of the electorate may guide and advise His Majesty the King upon the question whether to promulgate a proposed amendment to Organic Law, viz.: RESOLVED, that the text in Article XIII, Section 5 of the Organic Law of the Kingdom of Talossa currently reading "The Clark must contain, in every edition, a Vote of Confidence" be modified to become "Every edition of the Clark must contain a Vote of Confidence, except the final Clark of a Cosa in which a month of recess has taken place during the term, which shall not contain such a Vote". Uréu q'estadra sa, Baron Hooligan (MC, RUMP)
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Flip Molinar
Talossan since 1-1-2008
Proud Talossan
Posts: 1,592
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Post by Flip Molinar on Jul 27, 2011 20:09:29 GMT -6
I was about to propose just such a bill. Sounds good to me.
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King John
King of Talossa
Posts: 2,415
Talossan Since: 5-7-2005
Knight Since: 11-30-2005
Motto: COR UNUM
King Since: 3-14-2007
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Post by King John on Jul 28, 2011 12:03:46 GMT -6
Except that if there hasn't been a month of recess during the current Cosa, the Prime Minister could declare one after the 6th Clark. And a loss of the VOC during the 6th Clark would prevent that. So in fact, there *is* a reason to have the VOC, unless the month of recess has already been used.
— John R
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Jul 28, 2011 15:44:20 GMT -6
I have made a change to the draft to take the King's post into consideration.
Hool
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2011 15:51:15 GMT -6
There is also the symbolism behind possibly losing a Vote of Confidence in the final month, perhaps giving the party a wake up call. I don't think leaving it as is is such a big deal.
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Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN
Puisne Justice; Chancellor of the Royal Talossan Bar; Cunstaval to Florencia
Dame & Former Seneschal
Posts: 1,157
Talossan Since: 4-5-2010
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN on Jul 29, 2011 4:38:53 GMT -6
I like the Bill and I think it makes sense in getting rid of a VOC which serves no real purpose as the Cosa will be dissolved the following month anyway. If a MC is discontent with the Government during the final Clark, there is plenty of avenues, besides the VOC in which this discontent can be given voice and heard, by a majority of Talossans. If there is a serious discontent there, then I am sure the Government at the time will respond aptly to the situation and take it more seriously than a pointless VOC.
My only quibble with the Bill is the use of brackets, I don't like to see brackets in the Orglaw, rather commas and (semi-) Colons. So, I would say remove the brackets, so that the text reads better and is much clearer.
-- Litz
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Post by Martì Prevuost on Jul 29, 2011 7:10:13 GMT -6
To remedy the Seneschal's wise objection to the use of brackets (or in American English, parentheses), might the proposal merely state a VoC shall not be included in the final Clark of a Cosa?
MAG
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Jul 29, 2011 10:07:18 GMT -6
Well, I had it stating simply "the final Clark of a Cosa" but the King complained that this wasn't the case, since (he says) that if there has been no month of recess, the PM has the power to still declare one after the final Clark and before the election, and in this case, the Cosa should be allowed to hold a VOC to ensure that the election is not delayed a month by this tactic.
I didn't look at OrgLaw to see if the King is correct that there can be a month of recess declared AFTER the sixth Clark, but well, he's the King, so I figure he's right. (Is he?)
And for now, fine, I'll remove the brackrentheses.
Hool
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Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN
Puisne Justice; Chancellor of the Royal Talossan Bar; Cunstaval to Florencia
Dame & Former Seneschal
Posts: 1,157
Talossan Since: 4-5-2010
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN on Jul 29, 2011 10:18:47 GMT -6
The King is right and here's the much talked about text:
[/center]
However, the Seneschál may insert between any two Clarks, or after the sixth Clark, a "month of recess" in which no Clark is published and no Cosâ or Senäts business is conducted.
[/quote]
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Jul 29, 2011 10:31:54 GMT -6
According to the Seneschal (and she's a sharp legal mind), the issuance of a Warrant of Prorogation does not mean that there can be no month of recess ALSO during the Cosa (I had thought that it did), and thus we can indeed simplify the language to a happy medium, as suggested by the Seneschal: "The Clark must contain, in every edition, a Vote of Confidence, except the final Clark of a Cosa Term if a “month of recess” has already taken place, during that term." The draft now reads thusly.
Hool
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Post by Martì Prevuost on Jul 29, 2011 12:36:20 GMT -6
So what is this Warrant of Prorogation of which you speak?
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Jul 29, 2011 12:40:44 GMT -6
The Warrant of Progogation is covered by Article XIII, Section 2 of Organic Law. After an election, the Seneschal can request that the Crown issue a Warrant of Prorogation, which essentially quashes the First Clark, allowing the government one more month to form itself and determine on a legislative agenda. Such a Warrant means that the incoming Cosa will only have a total of five, not six Clarks in which to meet in session. Hool
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Post by Martì Prevuost on Jul 29, 2011 12:55:15 GMT -6
And you've learned that such a Warrant does not exclude also the use of a recess month? So a Cosa could be only four Clarks in length? And here I thought the US Congress was a slacker organization!!!
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Jul 29, 2011 16:17:58 GMT -6
:-) No, a Cosa will have at least five Clarks. But it is the case that it could have both a Warrant of Prorogation (quashing the first of what would have been six Clarks) and a Month of Recess (stuck in between two of the still-five Clarks).
Hool
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Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN
Puisne Justice; Chancellor of the Royal Talossan Bar; Cunstaval to Florencia
Dame & Former Seneschal
Posts: 1,157
Talossan Since: 4-5-2010
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN on Jul 31, 2011 6:50:32 GMT -6
I think we have reached a satisfactory conclusion to this bill, therefore I will be asking the SoS to Clark this bill, so that it may be considered in the last clark of this Cosa and if passed voted upon by the Citizens of Talossa in the upcoming election.
If anyone has any comments, objections, problems etc... now's your chance to air them!
-- Litz
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