The Ziu Reform Amendment

[Deleted]

WHEREAS the Ziu is the bicameral legislative body of the Kingdom of Talossa, divided into the bodies of the Cosa and the Senats and

WHEREAS there exist conditions which place limits upon Members of the Cosa, such as provisions for the removal of an MC from Office and

WHEREAS the Senats remains under no such restrictions and

WHEREAS because the Senats is comprised of only one senator from each province, the body is rather small and

WHEREAS this means a group of a few can override the will of the people as a whole and

WHEREAS that is not the sign of a vibrant democracy and

WHEREAS it is the duty of the Ziu to ensure the rights and will of the people are adequately represented in their legislature so

THEREFORE,

Article V Section 5 of the Organic Law is hereby amended to read:

A Senator vacates his seats if he fails to vote on two consecutive Clarks, or if he resign from office, loses his citizenship or dies. A Senator may also be removed following a recall election. A provincial assembly may vote to recall a Senator during their regular legislative session in accordance with guidelines established by each province. If the recall passes with a 2/3 majority, the recalled Senator or another member of the Ziu shall then have until the next Clark to submit a bill declaring that the Senator should remain in office despite having lost the confidence of their respective provincial assembly. The recalled Senator shall abstain from this vote. If the measure passes, the Senator remains in office but shall be immediately removed if the measure fails. If no such bill is presented, the Senator shall be removed from office at the conclusion of voting of the next Clark and a replacement shall be chosen by their respective provincial assembly to complete the term in the Senats.

FURTHERMORE, Article X is amended to include Section 9 which shall read:

Measures which pass the Cosa but fail the Senats may be contested by a member of the Cosa unless the measure was unanimously defeated in the Senats. An MC shall notify the Secretary of State within two days of the close of voting that they wish to motion for an override, thus passing the bill despite its failure in the Senats. The disputed bill will be reclarked at the next open legislative session and voted on again by the Cosa only. If it passes by a 3/5 majority, it shall be considered passed by the Ziu and shall be submitted to the King as prescribed by applicable law.

Noi urent q'estadra sa:
T.M. Asmourescu, MC - RUMP
Xhorxh Asmour, MC - CCCP
Flip Molinar, MC - CCCP

[Xhorxh Asmour]

Hay, I'd be glad to co-sponsor that!

[Owen Edwards]

Good Amendment, at first glance - very much the best solution, in a general sense, to the problem.

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

"If the measure passes, the Senator remains in office but shall be immediately removed if the measure fails. "

What if the remaining Senators vote 3-3 ?

[Flip Molinar]

I'd like to cosponsor this act please.

[Deleted]

Jan 23, 2009 15:29:18 GMT -6 Capt. Sir Mick Preston said:

"If the measure passes, the Senator remains in office but shall be immediately removed if the measure fails. "

What if the remaining Senators vote 3-3 ?

I believe under current law, when a bill comes to a tie the measure is considered to have not passed.

The idea is based upon simple checks and balances. Look at the Cosa, the OrgLaw allows for the removal of an MC by a vote of the Ziu. It does not allow for the removal of a Senator.

Since Senators are tied to a specific geographic constituency, they are held accountable to their respective Province. Each province can legislate under what conditions a Senator can be removed.

Essentially, the Provincial Assembly is recalling the Senator. The Senator, or another member of the Ziu is offering a bill in the attempt to override the Provincial Assembly. If the measure fails, just like any other measure, the Senator is out.

The objective is this:

1. The Senator, like the MC can be removed
2. Since the power is given to the Provincial Assemblies, the Ziu has the power to override a recall, this is a protection from abuse.


And lastly, Mick, I know this isn't absolute...but if you are a Senator, and during a recall election only half of your colleagues in the Senats think you should keep your office, isn't that saying something about their performance up to that point?

[Deleted]

Jan 23, 2009 15:06:26 GMT -6 Owen Edwards said:

Good Amendment, at first glance - very much the best solution, in a general sense, to the problem.

Thanks, Owen. Now, the trick will be getting the support of our Senators...

[Brad Holmes]

Jan 23, 2009 21:07:30 GMT -6 Adm. T.M. Asmourescu, O. Ben. said:

Now, the trick will be getting the support of our Senators...

You're not wrong...

[Deleted]

Well, I'm open to suggestions from our esteemed Senators...

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

I'm not arguing against this - I'm trouble shooting it.

[Deleted]

Jan 23, 2009 22:06:58 GMT -6 Capt. Sir Mick Preston said:

I'm not arguing against this - I'm trouble shooting it.

Please do.

My biggest concern is that the Senats is in a very unique place. With only 7 Senators, a small group can block any and every piece of legislation that may win overwhelming support by the Cosa. Coupled with the length of their term and no way they can be removed, this is really a recipe for disaster.

Some would argue that this would prevent a Senator from voting his/her conscience. To that I say a Senator can and should vote his/her conscience. But, the role of Senator is that of provincial representative to the Senats. The Senators are supposed to be representing the will of the people. If their conscience leads them in a direction where their will runs contrary to their people, the people should have an opportunity to remove them prior to the end of their term.

The proposed amendment allows just that, along with a protection against abuse by allowing a recall to be blocked by the Ziu. Imagine this scenario:

Premier Smith really wants to be a Senator.

At the next session of the Provincial Assembly, Premier Smith takes advantage of historically low PA voting and initiates a recall on the newly elected Senator. The measure passes the Assembly.

Senator So-and-So has been doing his/her senatorial duty. There are no major disputes over conduct, voting record or anything like that, so Senator So-and-So proposes a bill to block the recall.

The Cosa and the Senats look at the whole thing and say, "Hey, Senator So-and-So didn't really do that much to warrant recall" and vote PER on the measure to block the recall.

The measure passes and Premier Smith's evil plan is thwarted.

[Hooligan]

On first glance, I like the idea of a Senator being recallable by the province he or she represents.

I am not as keen on the other change proposed here, allowing 60% of the Cosa being able to pass laws unilaterally, despite what 6 of 7 Senators might want for their nation. I don't think that will fly. To me, this effectively seems like the reduction of a bicameral legislature into a unicameral one in which a 60% majority (120 Cosa seats) can decide all. The Senate would become trivialized and at the mercy of a rather thin majority of the Cosa.

Those are my initial thoughts -- I can support the first clause, though I would propose some rewording to it (and may do so after thinking a bit about it) but could not support the second.

Hooligan

[Deleted]

I see Hooligan's point. I struck it from the draft for the simple reason that we would then be tipping the scales of power further toward the Cosa and that isn't very fair at all. So, let's focus on the Senate recall aspect and try to make that work.

[Brad Holmes]

Lord Hooligan is pretty smart.

Recall options are fine.

But now we could also wander back to the issue of removing MCs...

[Deleted]

Jan 24, 2009 21:25:43 GMT -6 Brad Holmes said:

Lord Hooligan is pretty smart.

Recall options are fine.

But now we could also wander back to the issue of removing MCs...

Which issue? Presently the OrgLaw allows for a removal by a measure of the Ziu.