The Minimum Drinking Age Act

[Deleted]

Apr 15, 2009 9:11:00 GMT -6 Adm. T.M. Asmourescu, O. Ben. said:

Apr 14, 2009 14:14:27 GMT -6 Viteu Marcianüs said:

I did some research into this. Wisconsin, like NYS, allows for parents/guardians/spouses to give folks who are not 21 alcohol.

Right, but that is different from "serving a minor alcohol." Essentially, the NYS (and Wisconsin) permission to give a spouse or relative alcohol means that when I have kids, I don't have to worry about the purple ties (NYS Police) kicking in my door if I give the kids some wine at seder. It does not mean that a minor can walk into a bar and order a round for his cub scout chums.

This act started out as "let's lower the drinking age from 21 to 18" and that is a spirit I can agree with, at least enough to only abstain. I agree with that because virtually every country has a drinking age of 16-18. However, 14 is entirely too young to allow unrestricted purchase and consumption of alcohol, even if that permission only exists on paper in the form of an unenforceable bill.

I worry about the perception in the global community. First, we extend rights of adulthood to 14 year olds, then we want to make it legal to liquor them up? Sounds like what a nation of perverts would want, to tell you the truth.

Not only can I not put my name to it, but this present draft crosses a line. I will be forced to vote against it.

I agree with you, my point was not that a kid may walk into a bar. But, this may or may not be relevant, does Talossa have similar laws? The NYS laws stem from the many cultures that live in the tri-state area where it is common (be it a ceder, irish breakfast (couldn't resist), italian dinner.) In Talossa, would it be considered illegal?

Onto the bill at hand. I do not know if I can vote for this. I wouldn't want anyone who is in Talossa with a minor to get in trouble. And by Talossa I mean what the Americans call Milwaukee.

However, there is an understanding, when you're in a foreign land, you abide by its laws. This law may not have any real influence on the majority of us who do not live in Talossa because we are forced to abide by the laws of our host nations anyway. The question really comes down to the overlap that carries on American-Wisconsinite Law vs. Talossan Law. And as it has been said before, I take up the opinion that I will not put a law into place that may possibly conflict a law that could be enforced and ruin somebody's life just for "moral" reasons or whatever it is being called.

[Cole Schneider]

Apr 16, 2009 7:37:13 GMT -6 Viteu Marcianüs said:

I will not put a law into place that may possibly conflict a law that could be enforced and ruin somebody's life just for "moral" reasons or whatever it is being called.

Quite right, the drinking age should stay the same as long are we are "not a real country", that is the united states does not accept that we have moved away.

However, should we be officially recognized this bill should, and will, be brought back up.

[Jack Fenton]

In my country of England, a child can drink at home with supervision and moderation at the age of 5. I never did, and I personally think 8 is maybe more appropriate.

You can drink 1 beer, cider, perry or mead with a substantial meal in a pub or restruant when ordered by an adult and supervised at 16, and you can buy otright at 18.

I also think the laws of the Netherlands are quite sensible, where you can buy <15% at 16, and =>15% at 18.

In my personal opinion (being a bit biased as I'm under 18), I think...

8, 9, 10 to drink at home.
14 to drink in a pub with a meal.
16 to buy beer or light wine.
18 for anything over 15%.

But knowing what Britain's youth can be like, I'm happy with the limits here being as they are.

[Alèx Soleighlfred]

me i will suggest other proposal: 13 to drink at home under the supervision, 16 to drink in a pub with a meal, 19 to buy beer or wine or smth, 21to buy smth more than 15%. please notice i.m less than eighteen too. i know what the harm can be made by alcohol.

[Xhorxh Asmour]

I find Alexandreu's idea most sensible.

[Alèx Soleighlfred]

Thank you, Xhorxh!

So, if I made such a project (just for example, for you to get acquainted with my views on this problem) i would propose something like that (of course if I have right to do so, if not - tell me and i will never do so again)

===Minimal Drinking Age Act===

WHEREAS it is necessary to set such an age for the consumption of alcoholic beverages in public settings and/or establishments;

WHEREAS in Talossa, citizens are considered adults after attaining the age of 14, as defined in the Organic Law;

WHEREAS Talossan adults should be able to consume Alcohol in public within the boarders of their own country;

WHEREAS Talossan children, nevertheless, should be shielded from the alcohol killing force;

THEREFORE be it resolved by the Ziu of the Kingdom of Talossa that

1. The minimum drinking age for all Talossan citizens and the Age when we are considered adults in Talossa are no more associated one with other,

2. The age when Talossans are considered adults is set up, as previously, to 14 years of age, whilst the minimum drinking age for all Talossan citizens is set to:

- 13\14 years for drinking at home after supervision
- 16 yrs to drink in a pub with a meal,
- 19 yrs to buy beer or wine,
- 21 yrs to buy anything over 15%.

3. This freedom of drinking alcohol is set to all Talossans older the said ages and in said measures only if the laws of the country the citizen lives in geographically allow it to be so.

4. Alcohol consumption for those under 16 years is allowed (as said) but strongly unrecommended.

---note that here I've declare my personally views that i really find best.

[Flip Molinar]

I love it.

[Alèx Soleighlfred]

o rly? so you flip finally just have to sign it by your name and we can pass that further

[Brad Holmes]

Apr 4, 2009 9:51:33 GMT -6 Brad Holmes said:

Seriously? Again?

If so, then again my vote will be NO.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure it isn't really good form to write a law that says:

"4. Alcohol consumption for those under 16 years is allowed (as said) but strongly unrecommended."

Something is either legal or illegal.

Also, there us no such word as "unrecommended," something is either recommended or not recommended.

[Alèx Soleighlfred]

think so? alcohol generally is neither legal nor illegal. By theese words I just meant: people under 16 yrs CAN consumpt alcohol drinks. It is LEGAL. But it is bad morally, it has negative effect on life, health, etc etc etc. It's really so, that's why the government should make strong advetising AGAINST alcohol (not _banning_ alcohol consumption at the same time).
that's what I meant. What do you disagree with? you disagree that it should be LEGAL or you disagree that we must tell our youth that alcohol is bad?

[Deleted]

Jul 21, 2009 6:02:00 GMT -6 Brad Holmes said:

Apr 4, 2009 9:51:33 GMT -6 Brad Holmes said:

Seriously? Again?

If so, then again my vote will be NO.

Ditto.

[Deleted]

Jul 21, 2009 8:14:25 GMT -6 Alèx Soleighlfred said:

think so? alcohol generally is neither legal nor illegal. By theese words I just meant: people under 16 yrs CAN consumpt alcohol drinks. It is LEGAL. But it is bad morally, it has negative effect on life, health, etc etc etc. It's really so, that's why the government should make strong advetising AGAINST alcohol (not _banning_ alcohol consumption at the same time).
that's what I meant. What do you disagree with? you disagree that it should be LEGAL or you disagree that we must tell our youth that alcohol is bad?

In most cases, regardless of any law we pass, there will be citizens who reside in other countries where it is ILLEGAL to consume alcohol under 21 or 18. Period. To pass laws to the contrary could be perceived as us promoting law breaking among our more youthful citizens. That I cannot vote for.

The latter point is moot. We are legislators, we are not theologians. Well, I am, but I can't let that affect my secular legislative duties. The point is, we should not be passing anything that tells citizens what is moral or immoral. We are working with civil (as opposed to ecclesiastical) law.

[Deleted]

Jul 21, 2009 9:44:24 GMT -6 Adm. T.M. Asmourescu, O. Ben. said:

...The point is, we should not be passing anything that tells citizens what is moral or immoral.

I concur 100%.

[Alèx Soleighlfred]

Firstly: "3. This freedom of drinking alcohol is set to all Talossans older the said ages and in said measures only if the laws of the country the citizen lives in geographically allow it to be so." I said about the case when the law in the country where cybercits resides doesn't allow that talossan act allows. read carefully.
Secondly: "we should not be passing anything that tells citizens what is moral or immoral."
I disagree 100%. But if you want so.. Ok let's give in. Let everyone drink everything, heh? Of cooourse, everyone knows when to stop, eeeveryone is more clever that I think - so ok let children drink anything they want, or more - what for we are writing laws? We have no right to tell citizens whats good and what's bad! they know it themselves! isn't it? you wrote so yourself. here in russia government does _actually nothing_ to prevent alcohol consumption. Russians drink 11-13 litres of beer. the result is - hundreeds of drunk children and teens on the streets doing everything they want, poisoned by ethanol and dying in the hospitals, i know what i say and i know what is the reason - the russian lawmakers making nothing to prevent it. I know what i say i live here! but of course, we are forceless. we can do nothing to defend people from the evil. it's not our problem, heh? our duty is in restructuring offices and nothing-meaning laws, that's our duty. let teens measure their alcohol drinks as they want, of course, of course...