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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2008 8:56:28 GMT -6
I would think that if Sir Fritz could demonstrate that B's comments negatively impacted his business -- and that certainly seems to be feasible, given the customer interaction he cites -- there could be a case. As for class action, I'm not sure how you'd prove damage to others, unless similar circumstances could be demonstrated. Of course, I'm not a lawyer.... exactly. I don't know if Ben is calling EVERYONE here a neo nazi or just calling Sir Fritz, King John, and Mick neo-nazis. No one is going to google me, and my name doesn't show up on Witt, but I do work for a Jewish non for profit and it would be a lot of explaining if somehow it got out I'm part of a group that is made up of alleged neo nazis. Even though I know Sir Fritz and others aren't, people tend to believe what they read without questioning.
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EM Vürinalt
Citizen since 12-20-2007
Parletz, am?c, en entrez
Posts: 979
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Post by EM Vürinalt on Jul 17, 2008 8:57:20 GMT -6
I just finished reading the "new and improved" Ar Päts and I'm thoroughly disgusted.
Ben was something of a ghost, a forbidden name who's actions were never quite described, but after reading his new campiagn for hate, I understand now why so many people were so angry at him.
We can't let Ben screw with our minds. He's the disillusioned one, we're not.
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EM Vürinalt
Citizen since 12-20-2007
Parletz, am?c, en entrez
Posts: 979
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Post by EM Vürinalt on Jul 17, 2008 8:58:47 GMT -6
Even though I know Sir Fritz and others aren't, people tend to believe what they read without questioning. Especially on the Internet.
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Post by Owen Edwards on Jul 17, 2008 11:35:29 GMT -6
I hope that Ben's reappearance, if nothing else, helps us understand why the Republicans felt as they did; why Talossanity is one, indivisible stream of a culture, not the definition of such by one man or a junta; and calls us to honour our heroes again, with renewed vigour.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 17, 2008 13:50:47 GMT -6
Ben was something of a ghost, a forbidden name who's actions were never quite described, With respect, estimat cüntalossán, Mad Bob's actions are available for all to read at Wittenberg X - just scroll back to threads before 1 June 2004 - and in the first year or so of this very board, I assume. As to summaries in book form, Republic citizen Valcádac'h's A Nation Sundered is a must read - ask him for access. Finally, the broad outline of pre-Revolutionary history (from a Republican point of view, I hope you'll forgive us) is also available here - hope this helps. This is why we need to encourage the learning of Talossan history in both states, above all - because those who don't learn exactly what kind of a person Mad Bob was and is are doomed to repeat the mistakes of previous Talossans.
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King John
King of Talossa
Posts: 2,415
Talossan Since: 5-7-2005
Knight Since: 11-30-2005
Motto: COR UNUM
King Since: 3-14-2007
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Post by King John on Jul 17, 2008 14:24:34 GMT -6
Indeed. Miestra has touched the thing with a needle, as we say in old Talossan. (Rem acu tetigit.) Ben is a bully and a liar, full stop. He's a dishonest wimpy little pipsqueak, consumed by bitterness and anger and hatred, and *nothing* he says or writes is to be credited at all. To echo Mary McCarthy, "Every word he writes is a lie, including 'and' and 'the'."
— John R
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Jul 17, 2008 15:29:07 GMT -6
May I point something out?
Ben may be all of those things, but he is also the founder of Talossa, not just the Kingdom or the new 1979 Kingdom (how's that for a paradox) or the Republic, but all of Talossa. Should we not give him the respect to stop calling him names? If not because he is the founder of all Talossa, but because he is a person?
Dréu
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 17, 2008 15:52:37 GMT -6
May I point something out? Ben may be all of those things, but he is also the founder of Talossa, not just the Kingdom or the new 1979 Kingdom (how's that for a paradox) or the Republic, but all of Talossa. Should we not give him the respect to stop calling him names? If not because he is the founder of all Talossa, but because he is a person? Dréu Methinks when he stops referring to sir Fritz as a "Neo-Nazi" and a "Failed Businessman" , and to others as "Thugs" , then maybe. When he publicly apologizes to S:reu Gruber for the outlandish lies and falsehoods that he wrote, then maybe. When he makes amends for all the deceit that he said about Count Dan , then maybe. He may have founded the Kingdom, but that doesn't give him the right to denigrate the citizens. He doesn't get carte blanc to walk over those that left and lie about them. That doesn't give him the right to treat those that stayed in the Kingdom as if they were criminals , and publish outright despicable lies about them. Once he apologizes, and corrects the words of the past- Once he acts with respect toward those that were there during those dark days, then he will be given respect. Maybe. Edited to fix some really sloppy spelling
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Jul 17, 2008 15:58:34 GMT -6
May I point something out? Ben may be all of those things, but he is also the founder of Talossa, not just the Kingdom or the new 1979 Kingdom (how's that for a paradox) or the Republic, but all of Talossa. Should we not give him the respect to stop calling him names? If not because he is the founder of all Talossa, but because he is a person? Dréu Methinks when he stops refering to sir Fritz as a "Neo-Nazi" and a "Failed Buisnessman" , and to others as "Thugs" , then maybe. When he publically apologizes to S:reu Gruber for the outlandish lies and falsehoods that he wrote, then maybe. When he makes amends for all the deceit that he said about Count Dan , then maybe. He may have founded the Kingdom, but that doesn't give him the right to denigrate the citizens. He doesn't get carte blanc to walk over those that left and lie about them. That doesn't give him the right to treat those that stayed in the Kingdom as if they were criminals , and publish outright dispicable lies about them. Once he apologizes, and corrects the words of the past- Once he acts with respect towards those that were there during those dark days, then he will be given respect. Maybe. It is human to err. Let him be... there's no victory in insulting him.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 17, 2008 17:49:28 GMT -6
"It is human to err. Let him be... there's no victory in insulting him. "
One should expect to be treated, as they treat others. This is not a fight, where there is a winner or a looser.
There is no "victory" here. If someone treats others with disgust and disdain, then so should they be treated.
I believe another King once said "An Eye for and Eye".
Mad King Ben is getting what he has sown.
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Jul 17, 2008 17:54:59 GMT -6
...makes the whole world blind.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 17, 2008 19:02:55 GMT -6
No, it teaches you not to go poking someone else in the eye.
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Post by Owen Edwards on Jul 17, 2008 20:16:54 GMT -6
Hey, I'll publicly state that if Ben chilled and fundamentally changed the focus of his energies, I'd love to know him. Till then, there's no bones about it: he's a scarily obsessed asshole. But good luck to him - sincerely.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 17, 2008 20:19:27 GMT -6
I agree with Capt. Preston on this issue. The question is not a moral one, over who's "better" for using bad language about whom. The question is whether either legitimate Talossan state is actually threatened by this new initiative from the founder of the nation. If we spent less effort attempting to "politically sanitise" our own verbiage and considered more about how to deal with this threat, we'd be better off.
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Baron Fritz
Citizen since 12-7-2004; Knight since 11-30-2005; Baron since 12-26-2009
Posts: 136
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Post by Baron Fritz on Jul 17, 2008 21:22:23 GMT -6
Dreu is right. Calling Ben names solves nothing and makes us look the worse. I have tried not to do that, at least not in public but enough is enough.
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