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Post by Owen Edwards on Mar 12, 2008 15:25:19 GMT -6
Not being fancy like other folks round Talossa, I'm happy to simply commence a discussion here concerning everybody's thoughts and feelings on what specific features should be included in the Constitution. I will produce a draft of my own in the next few days - any other citizen of Cezembre (even if they are not a member of the Assembly) is welcome to propose their own version or propose amendments. On the 7th April, any extant proposals shall be put to a public referendum. The final version shall then stand for a week to allow further criticisms and amendments and then go for a final confirmation by 14th April.
Over and out.
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Sir X. Pol Briga
Talossan since 11-10-2005
Knight since 12-26-2009
59 is an important number - keep it prime in the thoughts of Talossa
Posts: 1,227
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Post by Sir X. Pol Briga on Mar 14, 2008 13:27:13 GMT -6
In the belief that more is less, I offer the comment that the constitution of Cézembre, should in some ways will make it distinct from the surrounding French system of laws which tend to grant the ability for someone to do something with everything else being restricted, rather than restrict them from doing certain things, with everything else being granted.
XPB
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Post by Owen Edwards on Mar 26, 2008 15:25:34 GMT -6
CONSITUTION OF THE SOVEREIGN PROVINCE OF CÉZEMBRE
The State
ARTICLE I
The Sovereign Province of Cézmbre is an autonomous and self-governing member of the federal Talossan nation and pledges eternal allegiance to His Royal Majesty, and the Regipäts Talossan.
ARTICLE II
The name of the state is the Sovereign Province of Cézembre.
ARTICLE III
The sacred and irremovable territory of the Sovereign Province of Cézembre shall consist of the cantons of the Zone Autorisée and the the Zone Interdite.
ARTICLE IV
The capital of the Province is Kingsland, that portion of the Zone Interdite liberated by King Robert I.
ARTICLE V
The sole historic and national language of the entire Talossan people, and therefore of the Cézembrian Province, is the Talossan language (el glhetg Talossan). The Cézembrian government shall also recognise English and French as useful working second languages, and may adopt tertiary working languages by law.
ARTICLE VI
The Provincial flag shall be blazoned as follows: Sable four bars argent, on a canton argent eleven ermine-spots sable four, three, and four.
L'Etats de Cézembre
ARTICLE VII
Legislative power in the Sovereign Province of Cézembre is invested in l'Etats de Cézembre. L'Etats shall consist of two classes of members: General Members, all Cézembrian citizens who wish to have membership in the body; and Voting Members, those who have been selected by parties having won votes in the preceding general election.
ARTICLE VII
L'Etats shall have power to pass any bill into law by a simple majority vote of its Voting Members. The Premieir shall send out a notification of voting period, of at least seven days. Each member shall have a prescribed amount of time in which to cast his vote (by email, telephone or forum post) before voting closes.
Le Seneschal
ARTICLE IX
Le Seneschal shall be the elected leader of Cezembre. The Seneschal shall have the power to issue proclamations which have the force of law. These proclamations may be appealed or amended as regular laws.
ARTICLE X
A new Seneschal may be chosen at any time by a resolution approved by a majority of l'Etats, but a resolution electing a new Seneschal or continuing the current Seneschal in office must be approved by l'Etats at least once in every term of the national Cosa. This resolution shall be open to both General Members and Voting Members.
The Governor-General
ARTICLE XI
The Governor-General is the representative of the King of Talossa, and as such, shall have veto power over all laws of l'Etats. The Governor-General is appointed by the King pursuant to the Organic Law.
The Lord Warden
ARTICLE XII
Cezembre’s delegate to the Senäts shall be known within the Province as the Lord Warden. He shall be selected according to the procedures set forth in the Organic Law.
Distribution of Power
ARTICLE XIII
So that no conflict of interest may occur, and no hostile attempt to take over the province may succeed, no citizen may simultaneously hold the post of Seneschal or Lord Warden alongside the post of Governor-General without a resolution of l'Etats expressly permitting this combination. The posts of Seneschal and Lord Warden may be held simultaneously.
Justice
ARTICLE XIV
The Cort pü Inalt shall have original jurisdiction to try all cases arising under Cézembrian law.
ARTICLE XV
If the population of the province is at least 15 voting citizens, the parties to a case may elect to have their case heard by a Cort of First Instance of not less than 3 Cezembrians, created at need by the government according to procedures adopted by law. The verdict of any such Cort may be appealed, if not unanimous, to the Talossan Cort pü Inalt.
Amendments
ARTICLE XVI
This Constitution may be altered by a resolution of l'Etats, which must be passed into approval by a referendum of the people, attaining the favour of three-fifths of those who vote, and proclaimed by the Governor-General.
Ratification
ARTICLE XVII
We, the people of Cezembre, do hereby endorse this constitution for the government of our great Province and do therefore ordain it to be the highest law of our land!
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Post by Owen Edwards on Mar 26, 2008 16:00:34 GMT -6
Next draft coming soon, after some tough legal discussion!
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King John
King of Talossa
Posts: 2,415
Talossan Since: 5-7-2005
Knight Since: 11-30-2005
Motto: COR UNUM
King Since: 3-14-2007
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Post by King John on Mar 26, 2008 16:36:36 GMT -6
Pardon my interference, but I think we should avoid referring to Talossa as "federal" and the Provinces as "sovereign". Talossa is a Kingdom; Cézembre (unlike the other Provinces) is also a Kingdom — at least, one of the Royal titles is "King of Cézembre", so I think it must be one. But the "sovereign" both of Talossa and of Cézembre is the King, not the Kingdom or Province. Right?
Anyway, that's how it seems to Us. :-)
— Jean R
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Post by Owen Edwards on Mar 26, 2008 16:41:08 GMT -6
You might be right. When I revise that draft I'll work on it1
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Mar 26, 2008 18:13:22 GMT -6
Pardon my interference, but I think we should avoid referring to Talossa as "federal" and the Provinces as "sovereign". Talossa is a Kingdom; Cézembre (unlike the other Provinces) is also a Kingdom — at least, one of the Royal titles is "King of Cézembre", so I think it must be one. But the "sovereign" both of Talossa and of Cézembre is the King, not the Kingdom or Province. Right? The points you address come from the draft constitution for Maricopa. And in both cases, the specific language comes from the version drafted by former Seneschal Dale Morris back in 1999. I don't see a problem with using the word "federal" (although I used to really dislike it). After all, it appears in the OrgLaw five times and in multiple in-force statutes. There's no conceptual problem with a country being both a kingdom and to some degree federal, like Belgium, the Kingdom of the Netherlands, Canada, or Australia. Maybe not federal in the U.S. sense, where the states had a pre-existing sovereignty that they brought to the union and the central government is one of delegated powers, but still I think a meaningful sense. The term "Sovereign Province" I see as mostly puffery on the part of the province, in keeping with the fine tradition of Talossan pomposity and pretentiousness. In Canada, the provinces are sometimes referred to as "sovereign provinces" even though in another sense Elizabeth II is the only sovereign as Queen of Canada. But unlike Canada's territories, the provinces have their own viceroys in the form of the lieutenant-governors: personal representatives of the queen in the province. |
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Mar 26, 2008 18:38:07 GMT -6
OFF WITH HIS HEAD!
oh, wait...
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Post by french99 on Mar 27, 2008 15:40:15 GMT -6
I'm very happy for a debate on this matter but I'm [personally]unhappy with any idea of the 'federal' state whatsoever and the idea of 'sovereign' provinces etc is causing me concern. These concepts diminish the idea of the Talossan state. and the central position of the Monarchy. Whilst I enjoy pretension as much as any other Talossan, I'm concerned that if we enshrine such 'puffery' in a new constitution then we leave options for wrongdoing.
I also suspect that such use of terms leaves scope in the remote future for 'splittists' to detach bits of the country apart for their own ends We also haven't concluded the debate on the future of Talossa.
Vive La difference Vive Le Roi
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Post by Owen Edwards on Apr 10, 2008 17:52:48 GMT -6
Sorry for the delay on this - life has caught up with me a bit!
I'll have my next draft by the 14th - I'm off "IRL" work till Wednesday now.
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Post by Owen Edwards on Apr 22, 2008 14:36:07 GMT -6
Better late than never!
CONSITUTION OF THE KINGDOM OF CÉZEMBRE
The State
ARTICLE I
The Kingdom of Cézmbre is an autonomous and self-governing member of the federal Talossan nation and pledges eternal allegiance to His Royal Majesty, and the Regipäts Talossan.
ARTICLE II
The name of the state is la Provinçù Soveran da Cézembre. In English, it is the Sovereign Province of Cézembre.
ARTICLE III
The sacred and irremovable territory of the Sovereign Province of Cézembre shall consist of the cantons of the Zone Autorisée and the the Zone Interdite.
ARTICLE IV
The capital of the Province is Kingsland, that portion of the Zone Interdite liberated by King Robert I.
ARTICLE V
The sole historic and national language of the entire Talossan people, and therefore of the Cézembrian Province, is the Talossan language (el glhetg Talossan). The Cézembrian government shall also recognise English and French as useful working second languages, and may adopt tertiary working languages by law.
ARTICLE VI
The Provincial flag shall be blazoned as follows: Sable four bars argent, on a canton argent eleven ermine-spots sable four, three, and four.
L'Etats de Cézembre
ARTICLE VII
Legislative power in the Sovereign Province of Cézembre is invested in l'Etats de Cézembre. L'Etats shall consist of two classes of members: General Members, all Cézembrian citizens who wish to have membership in the body; and Voting Members, those who have been selected by those parties having won votes in the preceding general election. Each party shall receive a number of Voting Memberships equal to the number of votes they received from Cezembrian citizens at provincial assembly level in the preceding general election. A nominated Member may hold multiple Voting Memberships.
ARTICLE VII
L'Etats shall have power to pass any bill into law by a simple majority vote of its Voting Members. The Premier shall send out a notification of voting period, of at least seven days. Each member shall have a prescribed amount of time in which to cast his vote (by email, telephone or forum post) before voting closes.
Le Seneschal
ARTICLE IX
Le Seneschal shall be the elected leader of Cezembre. The Seneschal shall have the power to issue proclamations which have the force of law. These proclamations may be appealed or amended as regular laws. These proclamations may not act as acts of attainders or any activity prohibited by the Organic Law (with regards to Prime Dictats). These proclamations must be counter-signed by the Governor-General (or the King, in case of, by lack of appointment or by long-term absence, a Governor-General).
ARTICLE X
A new Seneschal may be chosen at any time by a resolution approved by a majority of l'Etats, but a resolution electing a new Seneschal or continuing the current Seneschal in office must be approved by l'Etats at least once in every term of the national Cosa. This resolution shall be open to both General Members and Voting Members.
The Governor-General
ARTICLE XI
The Governor-General is the representative of the King of Talossa, and as such, shall have veto power over all laws of l'Etats. This veto may be overturned by a two third vote of l'Etats. The Governor-General is appointed by the King pursuant to the Organic Law.
The Lord Warden
ARTICLE XII
Cezembre’s delegate to the Senäts shall be known within the Province as the Lord Warden. He shall be selected according to the procedures set forth in the Organic Law.
Distribution of Power
ARTICLE XIII
So that no conflict of interest may occur, and no hostile attempt to take over the province may succeed, no citizen may simultaneously hold the post of Seneschal or Lord Warden alongside the post of Governor-General without a resolution of l'Etats expressly permitting this combination. The posts of Seneschal and Lord Warden may be held simultaneously.
Justice
ARTICLE XIV
The Cort pü Inalt shall have original jurisdiction to try all cases arising under Cézembrian law.
ARTICLE XV
The Cort pu Inalt shall have full jurisdiction to rule on all legal matters within the province, supplemented by whatever inferior courts shall be determined by national statute.
Amendments
ARTICLE XVI
This Constitution may be altered by a resolution of two third or more of l'Etats, which must be passed into approval by a referendum of the people, attaining the majority of those who vote, and proclaimed by the Governor-General.
Ratification
ARTICLE XVII
We, the people of Cezembre, do hereby endorse this constitution for the government of our great Province and do therefore ordain it to be the highest law of our land!.
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Sir X. Pol Briga
Talossan since 11-10-2005
Knight since 12-26-2009
59 is an important number - keep it prime in the thoughts of Talossa
Posts: 1,227
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Post by Sir X. Pol Briga on Apr 23, 2008 14:21:37 GMT -6
In English, it is the Sovereign Province of Maricopa. umm, no, it is Cézembre! Also, I'm not sure where this constitution mentions Cunstavais? Would this not be the equivalent that of the Article XI? Are we just changing the name to Governor-General? If so, I would suggest that we adopt the popluar term "Governator" or otherwise stick with the national designtation. from www.kingdomoftalossa.net/index.cgi?lingo=&page=Provincial#1Provincial Government Constables | Cunstavais At the recommendation of the Prime Minister, the King appoints a Cunstaval (Constable) for each province, who serves as Head of State for the province, holding powers akin to the King on the national level, except that the Cunstavál cannot dissolve parliament. |
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Post by Owen Edwards on Apr 23, 2008 15:25:54 GMT -6
Corrected - also changed it to Kingdom, as we are one.
Governor-General = Cunstaval
Governor-General is a term more associated with Frenc and British history than Governor - is there a precedence for Governator? Why so?
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Sir X. Pol Briga
Talossan since 11-10-2005
Knight since 12-26-2009
59 is an important number - keep it prime in the thoughts of Talossa
Posts: 1,227
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Post by Sir X. Pol Briga on Apr 23, 2008 15:55:21 GMT -6
Corrected - also changed it to Kingdom, as we are one. Governor-General = Cunstaval Governor-General is a term more associated with Frenc and British history than Governor - is there a precedence for Governator? Why so? The Governator term started with Arnold Schwartzenegger - the Governor-Terminator if you will. It would make us seem that more menacing, since we are so far from other Talossan lands. |
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Apr 23, 2008 16:10:36 GMT -6
In English, it is the Sovereign Province of Maricopa. You haven't heard? You're being annexed.  |
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