Pledge of Loyalty

[markymark]

I believe that this topic was raised a long time ago on this board, but I have been thinking more about it the last few days. I feel that a citizenship oath should be composed that would be used for all new citizens. Many countries have citizenship oaths, so I do not see why Talossa should be any different.

Since Talossa is a monarchy, the oath should take the form of a pledge to the reigning monarch and to their sucessors- this is even more important when you take into consideration recent events. A line about loyalty to Talossa could also be added. (although loyalty to the sovereign also implies loyalty to the Kingdom)

A person would be able to either swear or affirm their consent to the oath.

What do people think? It would also add a much needed ceremony to the rite of citizenship!

[markymark]

A further note to the above post, for those citizens not familiar with a pledge to a monarch:

Swearing your loyalty to the King does not mean that you must obey their every command and agree with every position that they take. Rather, this oath simply is an expression of loyalty to the state, with the monarch being the living embodiment of the state.

[kri]

I don't have any objection to this in principle, though in practice it might be rather pointless. People who are trustworthy don't need to take an oath, and people who are untrustworthy, find oaths meaningless and non-binding.

I guess as a Christian I have a gut-level aversion to oaths, but I wouldn't find anything offensive about a general, symbolic pledge of loyalty.

Now, a pledge backed up by a credit card number with a $500 penalty for treason, now that's something I could get excited about.

Ben

[markymark]

My proposal for an oath is not due to any doubts about the honesty of our citizens or of our future citizens. We have safeguards in place to help weed-out "bad" citizens- and as Minister of Immigration I feel the department has been doing an excellent job!

My idea for the oath is mainly to add a little more colour to the naturalization process. The oath could be administered by the IM over the telephone, and if this was not practical, it could be signed by the new citizen and sent by e-mail or mail to the IM.

[kri]

> My idea for the oath is mainly to add a little more colour to the naturalization process. The oath could be administered by the IM over the telephone, and if this was not practical, it could be signed by the new citizen and sent by e-mail or mail to the IM.

I know there is an equivalent oath of naturalization in the USA, called the "Oath of Allegiance":

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

There's a lot in there that would be inappropriate for Talossa, frankly. We wouldn't actually want to raise the issue of renouncing all loyalty to one's native country, for instance, though certainly "I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any micronation of whom or which I have heretofore been a member" would be a good idea, as would a solemn promise to uphold the Organic Law, as fidelity to the constitution is the cornerstone of our society. And yes, something about the King somewhere.

One thing Fritz and I talked about this afternoon is getting Talossan passports made up for all new (and old) citizens. He has some business connections that might be able to work that out, with the Greater State Arms in gold embossing on the cover and all.

Back to the oath, in the early days of Talossa there was such an oath for naturalized citizens, it contained a bunch of weird requirements like promising not to use drugs or wear clothing intended for the opposite sex!

Ben

[markymark]

It would be very interesting if an actual copy of one of these oaths could be found. Since one of the purposes of Talossa is to have fun, we could include one of these sillier promises from our ancient history (although not the drug or cross-dressing ones)

On a completely different note- the official webpage for the Kingdom should be updated to reflect the fact that Gloria Estefan is the National Entertainer of Talossa.

[seahobbit]

KRI said:

I know there is an equivalent oath of naturalization in the USA, called the "Oath of Allegiance":

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

Canada's is shorter:
I swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors according to law, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

The Queen of Canada is the representation of authority in Canada because anyone in office or position of authority actually derives that authority from the Crown. The "Heirs and Successors" part clearly put that the oath doesn't die with Her Majesty but will survive with her successor whomever the law decides they'll be. This means that even if Canada (God forbid) becomes a republic the oath to the lawful authority in Canada continues.

I am quite indifferent whether or not to have an oath for new citizen, but if we do, the oath MUST be in the Talossan language and must reflect the views of a majority of Talossan and not the views of the majority party in the Ziu.

Marc Moisan, C.D.

[kri]

> Canada's is shorter:

Well, Canada is a smaller country. ;D

> I am quite indifferent whether or not to have an oath for new citizen, but if we do, the oath MUST be in the Talossan language and must reflect the views of a majority of Talossan and not the views of the majority party in the Ziu.

Seeing as how the Oath of Loyalty would in all likelihood be incorporated into the Organic Law, that would require a public referendum in any case.

Ben

[markymark]

I would be in favour of a shorter oath, something distinctly Talossan; while being in keeping with the oaths of other nations. The one point that I believe to be absolutely essential is loyalty to the sovereign and to their heirs and successors- Marc has explained the logic of this quite nicely above. We would just have to use different language expressing the same point- I do not want it to be a copy of any other oath.

I also agree with Marc that the oath should be in Talossan. The new citizen would simply make their best attempt at pronounciation, I am sure mine would not be much better!