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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Feb 10, 2008 17:16:10 GMT -6
Unlike some other bills I have introduced, this one has gone through some vetting, and will hopefully be accepted.
WHEREAS there are various terms used by many Talossans used to describe other Talossans, and
WHEREAS we are not talking about bad words, and
WHEREAS we need terms for every day use of these different types of Talossans, and
WHEREAS there is already a definition of the term "Cestour" via OrgLaw Article XVIII, Section 2
WHEREAS some of these terms are in regular usage but someone should coin these anyway, now
THEREFORE be it enacted by the Ziu, that the following terms and definitions be accepted as the term for every day use for that type of Talossan:
1. Old growther (Arvour Vell) - A Talossan who gained citizenship before 1996 2. Cünmilvoc'hteir (Home Growther) - Anyone who lives in Talossa 3. Cestourevriac (Drunk Cestour) - A Cestour who became a Talossan after 1996 4. Cybercit - A Talossan who lived outside the GTA when they became a citizen and gained citizenship after 1996 5. Ertéierben (Good Talossan) - A Cybercit who moves to Talossa after becoming a citizen
Uréu q'estadra sa:
Alexandreu Gavárþic'h (LRT-Vuode)
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Feb 10, 2008 17:19:43 GMT -6
In my discussion with my party leader he disagreed with me about Cestourevriacs and said that a Cestour who meets face to face with an old growther and is recruited by them should be considered an Old Growther, however, I disagree. Being an old Growther is about what period you became a Talossan in, pre or post internet
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Feb 10, 2008 17:40:27 GMT -6
The term "Cestour" is already legally defined by Organic Law (Article XVIII, Section 2).
Hooligan
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Post by Owen Edwards on Feb 10, 2008 17:49:42 GMT -6
In that case, the definition should simply be NOTED, rather than be defined, and any necessary rejigs taken into account.
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Feb 10, 2008 17:59:33 GMT -6
Quite Right, I will make that change
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Feb 10, 2008 18:18:06 GMT -6
Please note that the word Cestourevriac (Drunk Cestour) has three possible derivations: 1. The fact that our beer is perhaps the center of our Talossan world, so when a Cestour becomes a Talossan he is in a sense bringing himself into the world of beer i.e. he is drunk 2. While surfing the internet he stumbled across this site and was drunk enough to join this loony bin 3. A fellow Talossan got him drunk enough to get him to join Talossa
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Feb 10, 2008 18:28:37 GMT -6
Our current Chancery head, Mick Preston, then, would be a Secsteitevriac.
Hooligan
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Feb 11, 2008 10:12:56 GMT -6
This is kind of cool, but I question the bill's premise that "we need legal terms for these different types of Talossans." There is no one who fits into at least one of these categories. Why do we need legal definitions for different types of citizens? To me, that just invites laws and regulations to make use of these handy classifications, with the end result of undermining the equality of all Talossan citizens under the law. I think it's interesting for Talossan culture to develop these kind of terms. I don't think it's useful for them to be given the force of law.
Besides, there are some semantic gaps and minor errors in the definitions presented. "Old Growther" is defined as "A Talossan who both lived in the GTA when they became a Talossan Citizen, and became a citizen pre-internet." "Cybercit" is defined as "A Talossan who became a Talossan outside of the Talossan Territory." Traditionally, Cybercit (as the first element of the name suggests) only applied to citizens who joined during the Internet era. So what about those who became citizens pre-1996, but did not live in the GTA? Technically, as the bill is written, one could be an Old Growther and a Cybercit simultaneously.
I also want to make sure people understand what they're talking about when they use the term "GTA," since that term appears in this bill and has also been used a lot in other threads recently. GTA stands for "Greater Talossan Area." It includes not only Talossa proper, but also a vaguely-defined area around Talossa including the rest of the city of Milwaukee, just like "Greater Los Angeles Area" is often used to refer to Los Angeles plus areas near Los Angeles but outside the city limits, covering all or parts of several counties.
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Post by Owen Edwards on Feb 11, 2008 10:24:01 GMT -6
Based on Cresti's comments, I'd definitely change references to "GTA" to "Talossa" or similar; and tidy up the cybercit reference.
instead of "legal terms", "terms for everyday usage" - give this Bill the effect of a Sense of the Ziu as opposed to a law which can be broken
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Feb 11, 2008 10:24:11 GMT -6
Definitions have been fixed.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Feb 11, 2008 10:41:14 GMT -6
"post-internet"....
That means "after the internet".
Like, "Post Game" interviews..."Post Traumatic Stress "
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Feb 11, 2008 11:23:57 GMT -6
MC Preston and His Honour Sir Cresti both make excellent points; "internet period" would certainly have to be defined, and what is the reasoning for this bill? The bill mentions that some such terms are in use, but what argument is that for their legislation? Simply allow them to be used and evolve. We are not in such short space with the archives that we can't afford to define them in any future bills, if the need arises.
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Vit Caçeir
"I hated being AG so much I fled as far from it as literally possible."
Posts: 810
Talossan Since: 11-19-2007
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Post by Vit Caçeir on Feb 11, 2008 15:16:45 GMT -6
It includes not only Talossa proper, but also a vaguely-defined area around Talossa including the rest of the city of Milwaukee, just like "Greater Los Angeles Area" is often used to refer to Los Angeles plus areas near Los Angeles but outside the city limits, covering all or parts of several counties. If this bill were to be written into law, something tells me the GTA's "vaguely defined area" would have to become more definite. Again, another good point. What exactly defines "post-internet"? After the creation of the "first" internet (an IP wide-area network) , on January 1, 1983? Perhaps when the first commercial internet provider was released? Or does this mean when Talossa's first website was created and released publicly? It could even mean when the first Cybercit was accepted into Talossa. If these were purely cultural definitions, then the "murky areas" between them could be acceptable, as they would have no legal authority. However, if they are to be written into law, and actually be used in legal processions in the future, the definition should be as precise as possible, at least in my opinion.
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Feb 11, 2008 15:44:29 GMT -6
The "post-internet" period is the period after 1996 when Talossa went online.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Feb 11, 2008 15:46:36 GMT -6
You would have to provide an exact date, I would think. I also call your attention to my other objections above, S:reu MC: what is the need for this bill?
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