Amendment to the organic law for democracy

[Nicholas Rozzi]

I think this would be a good amendment

The powers not delegated to talossa's national government or to the provinces are now reserved to the people.

[King John]

We certainly need some sort of clarification of this point in the OrgLaw. As it stands now, we have contradictory provisions.

Article XVII Section 8 says:

All powers not vested in the Kingdom by this Organic Law shall be vested exclusively in the Provinces.

But Article XIX Covenant 17 says:

The enumeration of rights and freedoms in these Covenants shall not be construed to deny or disparage other rights retained by the people. Powers not delegated by law to the Crown, to the Government, to the courts, to the Provinces or Territories, or to legal state organs established thereunder, are held by the Talossan people.

I think Article XVII needs some serious re-writing, possibly in August or September, after the election. (For instance, I'd like to see a Province able to hold elections on its own schedule, instead of linked to National elections, and able to set its own terms of office ... within limits.) But Covenant 17 would seem already to include the main point Nicholas suggests.

— John Woolley, UrN

[Danihel Laurieir]

This is a bit off topic...and risks getting me labeled at pedantic...but:

This discussion really should be happening on the main Wittenberg forum, where it started.

This, technically, is not a legislative proposal because it wasn't put here by a legislator, which is what the Hopper is reserved for: review of legislative proposals by legislators.

Ideally, I'd like to see this thread reserved for discussions about more or less complete--if rough--legislative proposals...not merely ideas or suggestions. If a legislator wants to float an idea (as opposed to a proposal) he or she could do so on the floor of the Ziu or in the big, open-to-all-comers forum of Wittenberg.

But let's put this discussion--of an interesting and important idea--brought to everyone's attention by an applicant, should be moved to Wittenberg.

[Hooligan]

As a simple point of order, and important semantics, I feel that the Organic Law must be updated to clarify these sections. Sir John quoted our Organic Law saying "Powers not delegated by law to the Crown, to the Government, to the courts, to the Provinces or Territories, or to legal state organs established thereunder, are held by the Talossan people."

This is nonsensical. Powers cannot be held by people -- just as rights and privileges cannot be held by governments. Rights are God-given, not man-made, and only a person can be said to hold a right. Powers to rule, legislate, adjudicate, and enforce are man-made, and are vested in governments and governing authorities, but never in people.

Governments (and governmental bodies and offices) are granted powers that are manufactured (but never held) by the people. Government, in turn, asserts among its powers the ability to grant privileges to people. In theory, and in a good government such as ours, the solitary reason for the existence of any and all governmental powers is to allow the government to best secure the rights of the people against all infringement. But governments themselves have no rights, and people have no powers, in the legalistic, organic sense.

The "States' Rights" rallying cry in the U.S. has always been a bothersome misnomer to me. Persons claiming a "states' rights" agenda are actually advocating for state powers, and any reading of the U.S. Tenth Amendment would make it clear that the founding fathers of our neighboring nation knew the difference between rights, privileges, and powers. It is sad that those who followed them do not.

Our Sovereign King is the personification of his government, and thus can be said to wield the powers of government, but he is a man, and thus he may hold to himself only God-given rights and socially-granted privileges, not powers. He is privileged to be our King and administer the powers vested in his government, and we, in turn, are privileged to call him our King.

No one and nothing is immune from this hard and fast rule, and if I seem to be beating it too deeply into the ground, it is because the misunderstanding of this distinction (perhaps seen only as semantic to some) is a big pet peeve of mine. I feel that understanding and properly employing these simple and very different terms -- rights, privileges, and powers -- goes directly to the roots of understanding how and why governments and societies are organized among people who love liberty, their rights, and freedom.

Our Organic Law should be clarified to show the world we understand that our governments hold powers, and our people have their rights, and never the twain shall meet.

I now stand down from my soapbox.

Hooligan