EM Vürinalt
Citizen since 12-20-2007
Parletz, am?c, en entrez
Posts: 979
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Post by EM Vürinalt on Dec 19, 2007 12:55:59 GMT -6
Seeing as though I am eligable for citizenship today, I would like to ask the members of la Comità për l'Útzil del Glhetg to analyse my name and translate it into Talossan. S:reu Siervicül and S:reu Gavárþic'h have been kind enough to provide the following information regarding my Talossan name: Benzschawel is probably an altered form of Binsschaubel or -schäubel, a nickname for a tall, skinny man, from Middle High German biese (modern German Binse) ‘reed’ + schoup ‘bundle’, or from a house name with a sign depicting this. The Talossan word for Tall is înalt and the word for man is vür so... Vürînalt (which after the arestadâ will change to Vürinalt) SOo Éiric Matáiwos Vürînalt Alternatively, if you wanted to go all the way back to the Middle High German it could be "reed" which in Talossan is schiscâ and then "bundle" which is fasch Sooo Éiric Matáiwos Schisâfasch and: Keep in mind that both are a two-part theory. The question is whether the two parts are stick-bundle or Benz-Saul. Those with the name Benzschawel who argue for the latter point out that: 1. Combining surnames like that seems to have been a fairly well-established practice in parts of Germany. 2. Anecdotally, people researching their own family histories in German records have found a point at which the name was hyphenated, but no one gives an account of finding a change in spelling from Binsschäubel to Benzschawel. 3. A lot of sound changes are necessary to get from Binsschäubel to Benzschawel, whereas Benz and Schawel are already in the perfect form to combine as Benzschawel. There's not a lot of evidence available online, though. I'd be happy to let Matt go whichever way he pleases. and here's a bit more: Ahh okay I see that there seems to be much confusion about my name. Cresti is right in the sense that my last name was hyphenated. However, he is wrong in the sense that I do not hail from the southwestern side of Germany, but rather from the small town of Trier, a town just a few miles away from Luxembourg. However, my ancestry is not entirely German, I have blood from the French "Duvall" family and the Prussian (Polish/Czech) "Klann" and several others which I can't remember right off the top of my head. When you take into context my physical appearence - a 15 year old who's almost 6'2'' and as thin as a tree in the middle of winter, it is not unlikely that Binsschaubel could actually be the origin of my last name. Additionaly, Trier is within the two linguistic divides in Germany - the Benrath and Speyer lines, in which Modern Middle High German is spoken, which is one of the main points mentioned on ancestory.com's analysis of the last name. In all, I don't wish to shatter S:reu Siervicül's findings, but wish to add insight into such a confusing last name to wrap your head around. BTW-Kudos to S:reu Siervicül for noticing the nzsch consonant cluster, most people's brains explode about right there. Lastly - May I add the pronunciation of my last name in both English and German English - Ben-shal German- Bents-sha-vul Thanks to all the people that help translate such a confusing last name. ~Matt Benzschawel~
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Dec 19, 2007 13:02:58 GMT -6
Actually Matt...
it's 15 days AFTER your first post, not from your first post.
So you'll be eligible tomorrow.
(Your first post was Dec 4, 2007, 6:12pm, so you'll be eligible on Dec 20, 2007, 6:13pm)
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EM Vürinalt
Citizen since 12-20-2007
Parletz, am?c, en entrez
Posts: 979
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Post by EM Vürinalt on Dec 19, 2007 13:06:37 GMT -6
Actually Matt... it's 15 days AFTER your first post, not from your first post. So you'll be eligible tomorrow. Ah okay, thanks for the clarification, I was unsure and had talked S:reu Siervicül who said I could post here requesting a name. Well regardless, the request stands even if it cannot take affect until tommorow. Thanks Capt. for the clarification. ~Matt~
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Dec 19, 2007 13:10:20 GMT -6
Oh, You can still request- don't get me wrong.
And, barring any unforseen difficulties, you'll be able to vote in the General Election.
If you could PM me your email, I'll send you a Ballot as soon as you are eligible
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EM Vürinalt
Citizen since 12-20-2007
Parletz, am?c, en entrez
Posts: 979
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Post by EM Vürinalt on Dec 19, 2007 13:22:30 GMT -6
Sure, already sent. I have a quick question - should a consensus be reached on my name today, could I change it before I'm officially a citizen. I'd gladly and patiently wait if I cannot, but of course, the urge would to be to change it right away. Just curious. ~Matt~
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Dec 19, 2007 13:22:57 GMT -6
Matt, do you have a preference between the two theories about your last name (Binsschäubel v. Benz+Schawel)? Both seem plausible, so I'm fine with going either way. As Dréu pointed out (I believe), your first and last name will be Eiric Matáiwos (the former of which just dropped an accent thanks to the new Arestada).
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EM Vürinalt
Citizen since 12-20-2007
Parletz, am?c, en entrez
Posts: 979
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Post by EM Vürinalt on Dec 19, 2007 13:27:29 GMT -6
Matt, do you have a preference between the two theories about your last name (Binsschäubel v. Benz+Schawel)? Both seem plausible, so I'm fine with going either way. As Dréu pointed out (I believe), your first and last name will be Eiric Matáiwos (the former of which just dropped an accent thanks to the new Arestada). Well I'm actually torn between the two theories. I know for sure and have physical evidence that my name was, in fact, hyphenated as Benz-Schawel. I also know the direct city my family descended from (Trier) and when (records were found to nearly c.1650). I know the two possible choices so far : Eiric Matáiwos Schisâfasch Eiric Matáiwos Vürînalt What are these spelled like with the new orthography from the Arestada? And then what would my name be with the "Benz-Schawel" theory? Just want to weigh my options.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Dec 19, 2007 13:29:45 GMT -6
I have a quick question - should a consensus be reached on my name today, could I change it before I'm officially a citizen. I'd gladly and patiently wait if I cannot, but of course, the urge would to be to change it right away. That's a good question. Technically, the laws only provide for citizens requesting names. But I don't see a problem with trying to decide on a name change that will be effective concurrently with your naturalisation.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Dec 19, 2007 13:34:02 GMT -6
Actually, Sir Siervicul, I don't see any reason why he can't change his name at any time. For that matter, should anyone of my acquaintance discover they like Talossa but don't want to immigrate, I wouldn't see any problem with them taking a Talossan name either. Isn't the law provision only to preserve the efforts of our own language experts, rather than the language's use itself (which is free and open to all)?
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EM Vürinalt
Citizen since 12-20-2007
Parletz, am?c, en entrez
Posts: 979
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Post by EM Vürinalt on Dec 19, 2007 13:40:54 GMT -6
Actually, Sir Siervicul, I don't see any reason why he can't change his name at any time. For that matter, should anyone of my acquaintance discover they like Talossa but don't want to immigrate, I wouldn't see any problem with them taking a Talossan name either. Isn't the law provision only to preserve the efforts of our own language experts, rather than the language's use itself (which is free and open to all)? That's a good question. Technically, the laws only provide for citizens requesting names. But I don't see a problem with trying to decide on a name change that will be effective concurrently with your naturalisation. Hmm, well in order to remain politically correct and adhere to Talossan laws, I will wait to make my name change official tommorow should I recieve my citizenship.
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Post by Breneir Itravilatx on Dec 19, 2007 14:25:17 GMT -6
Eiric Matáiwos Vürînalt. The last name here sounds regal.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Dec 19, 2007 14:41:20 GMT -6
Hmm, well in order to remain politically correct and adhere to Talossan laws, I will wait to make my name change official tommorow should I recieve my citizenship. I meant that, if you like, we could "unofficially" decide on a name now, and the new name would officially be effective when it appears on your citizenship decree. Well I'm actually torn between the two theories. I know for sure and have physical evidence that my name was, in fact, hyphenated as Benz-Schawel. I also know the direct city my family descended from (Trier) and when (records were found to nearly c.1650). I know the two possible choices so far : Eiric Matáiwos Schisâfasch Eiric Matáiwos Vürînalt What are these spelled like with the new orthography from the Arestada? Each of those possibilities would just lose a circumflex: Schiscafasch and Vürinalt. Now, a common traditional method of forming surnames when dealing with a big compound word (as German words are wont to be) is to focus on the core element of the compound and just translate that. So instead of Schiscafasch you could just use Schisca (Reed, which I think captures the sense of the name better than "bundle"). Or instead of Vürinalt you could just use Inalt. Here's another approach that's maybe even better. Instead of just sticking words together like in German, it's good form in Talossan to try to get at your intended meaning by using our productive prefixes and suffixes. For example, the suffix -atx means "object or thing made from or having the quality of; collection, set, with a sense of order." So Schiscatx could mean a bundle (collection, set) of reeds, or (figuratively) one having the quality of a reed (tall and thin). Schawel is a transliteration of Šavel, meaning Saul. Talossan for Saul is Savul. Benz is a little trickier. I've read that it can be derived from the personal names Berthold, Bernard, or Benedict (in about that order of likelihood), or from "bear" (e.g. Benz coming from living at or near a tavern or inn with a bear on its sign). Bernard is Bärnart in Talossan. Benedict is Béneditsch. Bear is ursüm. Berthold doesn't exist in Talossan, but means something like "brilliantly shining" or "bright rule(r)." Britxind means bright or shining, and lucenteu means brilliant. Ruler is guanartiêns. Since Benz-Schawel was originally hyphenated, I would be temped to do that here too. So the second element would be Savul, and the first element would be whatever we decide on Benz meaning. Some examples: Ursüm-Savul Britxind-Savul Bärnart-Savul Béneditsch-Savul Since Benz is a diminutive pet form of whichever name it's derived from, we could do the same thing in Talossan: Bärnet-Savul Bärnüc-Savul Benet-Savul Benüc-Savul Or maybe just just Bärn-Savul or Bens-Savul. What do you think? Although I argued for the Benz-Schawel theory, I think Schiscatx feels particularly Talossan.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Dec 19, 2007 14:55:04 GMT -6
Actually, Sir Siervicul, I don't see any reason why he can't change his name at any time. For that matter, should anyone of my acquaintance discover they like Talossa but don't want to immigrate, I wouldn't see any problem with them taking a Talossan name either. Isn't the law provision only to preserve the efforts of our own language experts, rather than the language's use itself (which is free and open to all)? That's right. Any non-Talossan can adopt a Talossan name whatever they like, as far as we're concerned. The law only deals with Talossan names that will be designed with the assistance of the Language Bureau, and recorded in the official citizen roll by the Chancery.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Dec 19, 2007 15:02:32 GMT -6
Schiscafasch ... Vürinalt ... Schiscatx ... Savul ... Bärnart ... Béneditsch ... Britxind A few rough pronunciation notes for things that might be less obvious: ü, sch, and tsch are pronounced as in German tx is pronounced like French j or the s in English measure, treasure The l in Savul is silent ä is normally pronounced like the a in English cat, but before r (as in Bärnart) it may be pronounced like the e in English met, or the ê in French bête. Between vowels (as in Béneditsch), d is pronounced like the th in English this. The suffix -ind (as in britxind) as pronounced as if spelled -ant, like in English want.
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EM Vürinalt
Citizen since 12-20-2007
Parletz, am?c, en entrez
Posts: 979
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Post by EM Vürinalt on Dec 19, 2007 15:11:32 GMT -6
Wow thanks for the insight. After reading over the findings, I think I'm going to go with Eiric Matáiwos Vürinalt because it is very fitting to both a literal translation of my name and matches accordingly to my physical features.
Like I said, I will not change my display name or anything until I have received citizenship (hopefully being sometime tommorow or Friday). Additionally, I'd like to kick off or join the new citizens with post-Arestada orthography, therefore, since I technically recieved/will recieve my name after the Arestada, I will not use pre-Arestada spellings.
Thanks for everybody's help!
~The soon to be Eiric Matáiwos Vürinalt~
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