Speech from the Senats floor

[Danihel Laurieir]

Hmmm?

It's what?

It's my turn to speak?

Oh, yes…it's my turn to speak.

Sorry…<br>
I, uh, must have been napping.

Well, yes, yes, I'm happy—in a way—to be here. I suppose.

Let me begin by declaring how impressed I am by how vibrant the Kingdom of Talossa is!

It's really a marvel.

Oh…oh…oh…before I say that I should say a word of welcome to our legislature's two newest members: Mr. Asmour and Mr. Cheleir.

Welcome. Welcome to the jungle.

Anyway…as I was saying about how vibrant things are here…well perhaps—as nothing further about this subject comes to mind—I'll move on to other things…<br>
Apropos of nihil, here's a quote from Erich Fromm that—oddly—struck me as interesting:

"There is perhaps no phenomenon which contains so much destructive feeling as 'moral indignation', which permits envy or hate to be acted out under the guise of virtue."

Who else might find this quote interesting? I wonder. Anybody over there? Over here?

Am I alone? I mean, am I making sense? Probably not. On to the next subject…<br>
I shall not submit my "Hopper" proposal to the Clark.

I do not feel the time is ripe.

I shall not bore everyone with further argumentation at this point. Just so everyone has it straight, I do not concede a single point to our somewhat blinkered King in this debate. Apparently, he did not even bother to read my proposal before he started to attack it.
Perhaps the next Cosa, or the one after it, will be more favorably disposed to sweet reason.

What I will do, however, is continue my "Contracott" and that means…until Talossa's legislature embraces the virtue of reviewing legislative proposals before they are voted on, I will vote "contra" on every bill that has not been made public before being submitted to the Clark.

What "made public" means to me is: not just a description of a proposal, but a draft of its actual text is circulated online or via some other means in such a way that every member of the legislature would have the opportunity to inspect the proposal before it appears on the Clark.

Just as the "Hopper" proposal has a provision for this, I will allow myself to vote for urgently needed legislation without a comment period.

I will end my "contracott" when Talossa's legislature has either adopted formal procedures like those contained in the "Hopper" proposal or started a new informal tradition in which every new bill is circulated for comment before it is voted on.

Until then, I urge all my legislative colleagues—including Mssrs. Cheleir and Asmour--to join me in this struggle to enhance Talossa's deliberative and legislative traditions.

Avanti Talossa, avanti!

[kri]

>"There is perhaps no phenomenon which contains so much destructive feeling as 'moral indignation', which permits envy or hate to be acted out under the guise of virtue."

An excellent description of the motivation behind the terrorist attacks of September 11th and June 1st. Amy and I got to talking the other day about what happened on June 1st, and asked the rhetorical question: What if the traitors had just kicked me and Amy out of their online monopoly, thus requiring every single citizen to actively make a choice--either to stay with us or to accept the new régime? That would have been much, much more problematic than what they did: kick everybody out except the PC party and then ask the people kicked out to change their allegiance.

We concluded that the reason they didn't do it that way, is exactly what I had maintained from the beginning: they wanted exclusive power. They were, as you put it, "morally indignant" that people of an 'inferior race' (the three or four non-online Talossans, out of a population approaching fifty people!) were even allowed to participate in the first place.

The important point is not that we were victimized; it is that Talossa, as a community of friends and acquaintances built on law, survives and flourishes despite the attack. I think this is remarkable, but given the personalities involved, it really isn't all that surprising. We Talossans love Talossa--and that love transcends the mere unethical infatuation with power that motivates our rivals.

>I shall not bore everyone with further argumentation at this point. Just so everyone has it straight, I do not concede a single point to our somewhat blinkered King in this debate. Apparently, he did not even bother to read my proposal before he started to attack it.

No, Dan, that is completely and totally untrue. I read the entire proposal. That I may have failed to understand it completely has more to do with its ridiculous complexity and inherent difficulties, than with my own political motivations. (And what, pray tell, would those nefarious motivations be for opposing your scheme?)

>What I will do, however, is continue my "Contracott" and that means…until Talossa's legislature embraces the virtue of reviewing legislative proposals before they are voted on, I will vote "contra" on every bill that has not been made public before being submitted to the Clark.

There is nothing stopping you from doing this. Dan, lead by example!

>What "made public" means to me is: not just a description of a proposal, but a draft of its actual text is circulated online or via some other means in such a way that every member of the legislature would have the opportunity to inspect the proposal before it appears on the Clark.

Go for it. Just don't force it on others. If you want to vote against a bill that hasn't been published beforehand on Wittenberg, that's your prerogative. Voting against ALL bills is petulant and silly.

>I will end my "contracott" when Talossa's legislature has either adopted formal procedures like those contained in the "Hopper" proposal or started a new informal tradition in which every new bill is circulated for comment before it is voted on.

It already exists.

Ben

[markymark]

Dan,

I understand your desire to have proposed legislation debated publicly. Usually when I submit legislation I try to have a discussion with other Talossans about my bill- to make improvements and to rally support. Procedures are already in place to allow for this to happen...

Take for example my Paper Ballots bill. I posted the text of the legislation along with my ideas on the bill. From the replies that I received I altered the Paper Ballots Act, and in the end had a much better piece of legislation. Should this happen more often? Most likely. However, we do not need to complicate the process. Any member of the Ziu can post their bills on Witt or use other means to contact members.

I hope that you will not boycott, or as you say "contracott" all bills even if they were debated on Witt.

[Danihel Laurieir]

"An excellent description of the motivation behind the terrorist attacks of September 11th and June 1st. "

Yes, you're right: it's really quite useful, accurate and productive to compare the motivation of the jihadists who blew-up the Trade Towers with the Republican secessionists in Talossa. Right on point, Ben. Excellent job of making a judicious comparison. When you make such even-tempered and fair-minded pronouncements as this it becomes ever more mysterious how anyone could ever possibly lose their temper with you.

[jj]

DRL wrote: Yes, you're right: it's really quite useful, accurate and productive to compare the motivation of the jihadists who blew-up the Trade Towers with the Republican secessionists in Talossa. Right on point, Ben. Excellent job of making a judicious comparison. When you make such even-tempered and fair-minded pronouncements as this it becomes ever more mysterious how anyone could ever possibly lose their temper with you.

Precisely! The audacity --- to compare the inhuman monsters who murdered 3,000 people on 9/11/01 to Mike, Jeff, Martin-Pierre, John Eiffler, etc. is..well...I'm almost speechless with disgust. At any rate, such intemperate rantings and flailings surely make the Kingdom look less friendly and inviting a place for those who might be shopping around for a community to join.

"Join us, and if you piss a Certain Someone off enough you'll be called a terrorist akin to the vermin of 9/11!" is not exactly a clarion invitation to great fun, is it?

[kri]

> The audacity --- to compare the inhuman monsters who murdered 3,000 people on 9/11/01 to Mike, Jeff, Martin-Pierre, John Eiffler, etc. is..well...I'm almost speechless with disgust.

Well, I was speechless with disgust when I logged on to discover my Witt account had been deleted by some power-hungry fanatics who, every bit like the perpetrators of September 11th, feel that because they are right and we are wrong, they can steal our property and kick us out of our own community whenever they feel like it. What else would you compare this too?

These people are single-minded fanatics who believe that whatever they do is right. Whether it's lying about us, or stealing, or harassing people by e-mail, or calling for people's death, or setting up fake identities to trick the immigration minister and give us false hopes, or deleting people's accounts and breaking all sorts of (Talossan) laws purely to get revenge, that is what we are up against. Bickering among ourselves is not going to advance our cause.

Talossa needs to be a happy, united, active community if we are going to move forward.

The danger here is not free speech, Ián. Expressing one's opinions publicly is not the problem. The problem is how to rebuild in a post-June 1st world.

The sad fact is, there are hundreds if not thousands of web links around the world devoted to promoting Talossa--links which have all now been hijacked by the splitters. If we have failed to gain many new citizens since they split, it is not because of any failings on our part--it is simply because it is difficult to find out about Talossa on the internet without being misdirected to unauthorized sites.

> At any rate, such intemperate rantings and flailings surely make the Kingdom look less friendly and inviting a place for those who might be shopping around for a community to join.

In other words, I post one message on that topic on Wittenberg over the course of a month, and it's somehow an immediate national crisis? If you disagree with me, don't give me publicity by debating me. Talk about stuff you agree with. Promote stuff. Get back into the Ziu and propose bills.

When people only surface in Talossa in order to argue, *that* is what turns outsiders off. At least that's my opinion.

>"Join us, and if you piss a Certain Someone off enough you'll be called a terrorist akin to the vermin of 9/11!" is not exactly a clarion invitation to great fun, is it?

Ián, this is not a matter of "pissing a Certain Someone off." If you think it is, you have badly misread the situation. This is a matter of whether or not we can continue to be viable in an online community because all of our web links have been stolen and we have to start from scratch.

Starting from scratch is hard enough! It only makes it harder when we are internally divided. We can be diverse without being divided. Or can we?

Unless you feel personally violated by what they did, you have missed the point.

Ben

[jj]

Unless you see the utterly repellent act of putting "9/11/01" and "6/1/04" into one sentence and lumping them into the same category as "terrorists," then YOU have missed the point.

Mike Pope, Jeff Ragsdale, John Eiffler, Martin-Pierre et al did not murder 3,000 innocent people in cold blood.

[kri]

>Unless you see the utterly repellent act of putting "9/11/01" and "6/1/04" into one sentence and lumping them into the same category as "terrorists," then YOU have missed the point.

What is terrorism? The use of intimidation (violent or otherwise--and the "otherwise" would include cyberterrorism and other forms of harassment) to intimidate others, in order to further a political agenda.

Besides, when you were running TNN, you accused me many times of backing terrorists like Qadhafi and Castro. Whatever happened to the days when you and I could banter back and forth on such issues and still be friends?

I think I can tell you what happened. Talossa is descending down the same dark, spirally rat-hole as the United States. The majority of Republicans really, honestly believe that John Kerry is a lying scumbag who is soft on terror, and that if he were elected, it will be The End of Civilization As We Know It. Likewise, the majority of Democrats really, honestly believe that George Bush is a lying scumbag who stole the 2000 election, and that if he were elected, it will be The End of Civilization As We Know It.

Democrats and Republicans hate each other, at least when it comes to politics. They don't talk to each other about politics. When you and I get together, we can barely talk politics, lest we stray into some arena where we strongly disagree, and your blood pressure shoots through the ceiling and one or both of us begs to change the subject. Same with Talossa. Whatever this phenomenon is called, that is tearing apart the fabric of American society, is happening in Talossa too.

With one difference.

I never proposed kicking everybody out of Talossa who disagreed with me. Yes, Amy and I did sponsor a bill that would have stripped Gruber of citizenship--but the bill failed. End of story. All perfectly legal, above-board, and honest. And democratic. And fruitless. Life goes on, or was supposed to.

We have come to the point, in the USA and in Talossa, where a large proportion of the population appears to believe that if anyone, anywhere, holds differing views, then they must be silenced or expelled.

Most Talossans are decent, honest, nice people. That is precisely why they are no longer active in Talossa. Since the year 2000, the biggest group of Talossans has simply drifted away. The second biggest group is still here (though they're not very active). The third biggest group is the splitters themselves.

Groups 1 and 2 are sick of the politics. I'm sick of the politics. It's why I got out of the PC (big mistake, it turns out). It's why I divested myself of Cosa seats and quit the MN. It's why I've been desperately trying to abdicate for two years. I've had enough--haven't we all had enough?

How do we get back to the Talossa that we all loved to build? That is the question that should be on everybody's mind. The only question!

>Mike Pope, Jeff Ragsdale, John Eiffler, Martin-Pierre et al did not murder 3,000 innocent people in cold blood.

No, but they all believe that theft is morally right, when it suits their political purposes. That puts them on the same side of the fence as terrorists. These are the people who have stolen our web links, making it incredibly difficult for people browsing the internet to even find out about Talossa at all, unless they're specifically looking for it. As long as that situation remains, we will continue to decline in population.

Dan and I talked yesterday and he agreed with me that the splitters have a strategy to harass Talossans by e-mail. They want "converts," and, failing that, they want decent, ordinary, normal Talossans to get so sick of it all that they'll quit. It's a great strategy. It has worked. But it is all rooted in self-righteous smugness about the 'rightness' of their cause and the same attitude as the terrorists: We can do whatever the hell we please with you, because we are Right and you are Wrong.

Just today, our website disappeared. Was it hacked into? Don't know. Still checking that out. Stay tuned. In the meantime, remember who we're dealing with.

Ben