The Royal Descent of Ben?

[Ian da Bitour]

This is true???

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King Robert I of Talossa is a 33rd great-grandson of Raymond I, Count of Toulouse. He is descended from the Counts of Toulouse through several lines. The following is one representative line, perhaps the best attested through published historical and genealogical sources.

Raymond I, Count of Rouergue, Count of Toulouse, d. 863
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Odo, Count of Toulouse, d. 919
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Raymond II, Count of Toulouse, d. 924
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Raymond III Pons, Count of Toulouse
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William III Taillefer, Count of Toulouse, d. 994
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Pons II William, Count of Toulouse, d. 1061
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William IV, Count of Toulouse, d. 1092
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Maud-Philippe de Toulouse, b. 1070; married the Duke of Aquitaine
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William X, Duke of Aquitaine, b. 1099
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Eleanor, Duchess of Aquitaine, b. 1122; married the King of England
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John I, King of England, b. 1167
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Henry III, King of England, b. 1207
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Edward I "Longshanks," King of England, b. 1239
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Elizabeth, Princess of England, b. 1282; married Humphrey de Bohun
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Margaret de Bohun, b. 1311; married Hugh de Courtenay
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Philip Courtenay, b. 1346
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John Courtenay, b. 1384
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Philip Courtenay, b. 1400
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Elizabeth Courtenay, b. 1430; married James Luttrel
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Hugh Luttrel, b. 1456
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Eleanor Luttrel, b. abt. 1480; married Roger Yorke
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Elizabeth Yorke, b. 1500; married Edmund Perceval
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Joan Perceval, b. 1549; married Richard Lowell
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Percival Lowell, b. 1570; emigrated from England to Massachusetts
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John Lowell, b. 1595
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Sgt. Benjamin Lowell, b. 1642
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Joseph Lowell, b. 1680
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Marcy Lowell, b. 1718; married Francis Brown
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Molly Brown, b. 1743; married Zebulon Estey
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Mary Estey, b. 1767; married Amos Estey (her cousin)
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James Estey, b. 1796
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Rhoda Permilla Estey, b. 1830; married Silas P. Wilson
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Emily J. Wilson, b. 1852; married George H. Madison (born Håkan Mattesson)
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Benjamin Lee Madison, b. 1884
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Harry Lee Madison, b. 1924
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Robert Ben Madison, b. 1965;
crowned King Robert I of Talossa, 26th December 1979

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

I wouldn't doubt it, although I have no affirmative knowledge on the subject. Thanks to the mathematics involved, if you go back so many degrees you will find that many, many people are descended from nobility.

[Sir C. M. Siervicül]

viktorov said:

This is true???

It's more-or-less true, but I think there was some question about whether a certain woman he had identified in his family tree is the same woman who was a daughter of one of the Counts of Toulouse. Something like that.

[Dréu Gavárþic'h]

agbdavis said:

I wouldn't doubt it, although I have no affirmative knowledge on the subject. Thanks to the mathematics involved, if you go back so many degrees you will find that many, many people are descended from nobility.

He's right, I can show that I'm descended from the Cohenim (High Priests) which in Judaism are kind of like nobility, even though I'm not techincally a Cohen, but I think my great grandmother is, and the way you become a Cohen is if your mother is a Cohen, but I'm sure I could find some obscure way to show it.

[Sir C. M. Siervicül]

siervicul said:

It's more-or-less true, but I think there was some question about whether a certain woman he had identified in his family tree is the same woman who was a daughter of one of the Counts of Toulouse. Something like that.

Actually, the issue I mentioned pertained to a different line. Like Ben said, he had traced his descent from the House of Rouergue through multiple lines. And like Alexander and Dreu said, it's not unusual to find noble or royal ancestors if you look back far enough -- your 33rd great-grandparents theoretically include billions of people, which of course far exceeds the world population at that time. The cool thing for Ben is that he was able to make the specific connection to Toulouse, which already had a place in Talossan mythology.

[John Skvarek]

Isn't like 2% of the world descended from gengis kahn?

[Sir C. M. Siervicül]

terlingua said:

Isn't like 2% of the world descended from gengis kahn?

After this much time, that would not be hard to believe.

[Sir Tamorán dal Navâ]

Nov 18, 2007 23:41:24 GMT -6 Ian da Bitour said:

This is true???

This is *not* true. There's at least two connections in this supposed line that do not exist. There's too much garbage in genealogy (esp. with regards to royal descent) that you have to double and triple checked. I have checked. The facts do not show William III being the son of Raymond III.

William was instead son of Adelais of Anjou, known to have married a Raymond, "Prince of Gothia".

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_III,_Count_of_Toulouse

And the descent from Hugh Luttrel to Percival Lowell is iffy at best. Plus, the descent on down to Ben... is it proven? Not to say that it isn't, but I have nothing to prove it.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

LOL, I can prove by algebra that I'm descended from all manner of Irish royalty on the same evidence. Pity I'm a republican.

[Sir C. M. Siervicül]

Ben fixed the Raymond Pons > William III issue in one of the later versions of this genealogy, and also made a few other changes that strengthened it in other respects. It's impossible to say whether his fix is correct because there's no consensus on exactly how William III was related to Raymond Pons, but it doesn't matter much because there's little doubt that William III was ultimately descended from from Raymond I. We just aren't sure how many Raymonds came in between.

From William III on down, I'd say Ben's claim of descent is not ironclad, and not particularly meaningful, but quite plausible.

[Ián Tamorán S.H.]

I have 65 first cousins - yes, sixty five. And I am by no means unusual amongst the Irish (I am, by birth, Irish). In fact one Irishman suggested that because I have so few cousins there must have been infertile aunts in my family. Projecting this backwards in time, and assuming that one in eight of the past marriages were between cousins, and also assuming that each generation is only 40 (forty) times more interconnected than the one before, then it is all but certain that I am descended from Brian Boru(*). Now all I have to do is connect him to ancient Toulouse....

(*) and many millions of millions of millions of others. And that's more than the world's population has ever been.

[Sir Tamorán dal Navâ]

Give me a sec; I bet I could connect Brian Boru and the Toulouse dynasty...

[Gödafrïeu Válcadác’h]

Wasn't Ben's term 'bogus gateway ancestors'?