[NEW PECULIAR WAY]: Manifesto for the 54th Cosa

[E.S. Bornatfiglheu]

BUST OUT OF BENLAND. AN NPW MANIFESTO

"Kings made tombs more splendid than the houses of the living, childless lords sat in high halls counting the long names

of their ancestors more dear than the names of their sons... The line of Kings failed." --Gandalf

50 WORD STATEMENT: Derivativism has run amok and turns Talossa into a far less-fun place than it once was. The NPW provides a remedy to that with some well-placed reality. The NPW wants to clear space so everyone can let their freak flag fly.

1.) TOO @#$%& MANY PROVINCES- Any is too many. The provinces are a largely dead system that don't reflect anythng in particular. They should be abolished. Or, failing that, be distributed in order of seniority on a percentile system.

2.) NO @#$%& LAND!- You know what claim land they dont control? Bug nations. Land claims to Milwaukee deny reality and are holding Talossa back. It is behavior that is unbecoming of the greatest experimental polity known to humanity.

3.) NO @#$%& THRONE!- Nobody has the corner on Talossanity. Down with the Monarchy.

4.) FAILING THAT... @#$%& IT AND RENAME TALOSSA BENLAND- If Talossa is so moribund and tied to its past that it can no longer move, we'll just face facts and rename the nation Benland.

[Ian Plätschisch]

Nov 3, 2019 8:26:34 GMT -6 E.S. Bornatfiglheu said:

The NPW wants to clear space so everyone can let their freak flag fly.

Great! But then again, you want to take away things that a lot of Talossans identify with.

1.) TOO @#$%& MANY PROVINCES- Any is too many. The provinces are a largely dead system that don't reflect anythng in particular. They should be abolished. Or, failing that, be distributed in order of seniority on a percentile system.

There are definitely too many, but let's try four before we get rid of them altogether.

2.) NO @#$%& LAND!- You know what claim land they dont control? Bug nations. Land claims to Milwaukee deny reality and are holding Talossa back. It is behavior that is unbecoming of the greatest experimental polity known to humanity.

Holding Talossa back how? Sure, we can talk about being a stateless nation, but to the average person we'd be Just Another Internet Forum. The novelty of land claim generates interest, and also makes it a lot easier to explain what exactly Talossa is. We already have plenty of evidence that Talossa is not a bug nation. Also, let's not take ourselves too seriously; treating Talossa like it is of upmost importance on the world stage, and therefore we are not allowed to do things you think are "unbecoming," is not a great idea in my opinion. 

Many citizens have enjoyed making the Haxh, and I hope to do so eventually as well. If we did not claim the land, the appeal would not be the same.

3.) NO @#$%& THRONE!- Nobody has the corner on Talossanity. Down with the Monarchy.

A Republic doesn't have the same opportunities for pomp and prestige that a Monarchy has. Plus, most of our citizens come from Republics (as it should be for any "real" government); if they are joining another country voluntarily, a Monarchy is much more exciting. Of course, this requires an active Monarch...

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Nov 4, 2019 15:21:14 GMT -6 Ian Plätschisch said:

Nov 3, 2019 8:26:34 GMT -6 E.S. Bornatfiglheu said:

1.) TOO @#$%& MANY PROVINCES-

There are definitely too many,

Says who? Not the people of Florencia.

The Free Democrats utterly support provincial mergers such that the people of the provinces concerned support. No support to forced mergers "from above".

[Eðo Grischun]

Nov 4, 2019 15:21:14 GMT -6 Ian Plätschisch said:

2.) NO @#$%& LAND!- You know what claim land they dont control? Bug nations. Land claims to Milwaukee deny reality and are holding Talossa back. It is behavior that is unbecoming of the greatest experimental polity known to humanity.

Holding Talossa back how? Sure, we can talk about being a stateless nation, but to the average person we'd be Just Another Internet Forum. The novelty of land claim generates interest, and also makes it a lot easier to explain what exactly Talossa is. We already have plenty of evidence that Talossa is not a bug nation. Also, let's not take ourselves too seriously; treating Talossa like it is of upmost importance on the world stage, and therefore we are not allowed to do things you think are "unbecoming," is not a great idea in my opinion. 

It's been a few years since I've spoken about Talossa with "IRL" friends, but back when I did, they seemed intrigued and interested (on the verge on joining perhaps) right up until the land claim stuff enters the convo. The land claims were always met with a twisted face, an "eh?" and a laugh. The idea of Talossa being something interesting and unique changed to it being something weird and fake once they heard about a land claim on American soil.

[Eðo Grischun]

Can't be arsed arsing about with quote tags, but to follow Ian and Miestra...

Yeah. Peculiarism doesn't need to reject anything remotely derivitist just because it's derivitist. I'd say rejecting the land claims are fundamental to any and all Peculiar movements, but having provinces and a Monarchy system is just fine.

[Ian Plätschisch]

Nov 4, 2019 17:02:46 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

Nov 4, 2019 15:21:14 GMT -6 Ian Plätschisch said:

There are definitely too many,

Says who? Not the people of Florencia.

The Free Democrats utterly support provincial mergers such that the people of the provinces concerned support. No support to forced mergers "from above".

Fair enough, but I'm not going to stop saying that there are too many provinces just because other people disagree.

[Ian Plätschisch]

Nov 4, 2019 17:03:36 GMT -6 Eðo Grischun said:

Nov 4, 2019 15:21:14 GMT -6 Ian Plätschisch said:

Holding Talossa back how? Sure, we can talk about being a stateless nation, but to the average person we'd be Just Another Internet Forum. The novelty of land claim generates interest, and also makes it a lot easier to explain what exactly Talossa is. We already have plenty of evidence that Talossa is not a bug nation. Also, let's not take ourselves too seriously; treating Talossa like it is of upmost importance on the world stage, and therefore we are not allowed to do things you think are "unbecoming," is not a great idea in my opinion. 

It's been a few years since I've spoken about Talossa with "IRL" friends, but back when I did, they seemed intrigued and interested (on the verge on joining perhaps) right up until the land claim stuff enters the convo. The land claims were always met with a twisted face, an "eh?" and a laugh. The idea of Talossa being something interesting and unique changed to it being something weird and fake once they heard about a land claim on American soil.

I am genuinely interested to hear how you described Talossa in an interesting way before bringing up the land claims. They are fundamental to our founding, which is one of the most interesting parts to someone who has never heard about us before in my experience. Also, lacking any Talossan "ethnicity," in the absence of any land claim I don't see the difference between Talossa and other online communities.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

I honestly don't give a good rat's ciúl whether there are no provinces, 8 provinces or as many provinces as there are citizens.

An issue I do have an issue with is the size (and the very existence) of the Senäts, and why a totally inactive province gets a guaranteed MZ.

[E.S. Bornatfiglheu]

Nov 4, 2019 15:21:14 GMT -6 Ian Plätschisch said:

1.) TOO @#$%& MANY PROVINCES- Any is too many. The provinces are a largely dead system that don't reflect anythng in particular. They should be abolished. Or, failing that, be distributed in order of seniority on a percentile system.

There are definitely too many, but let's try four before we get rid of them altogether.

Why not try 6?  Or 12?  Or 2?  The important question is, why bother with them at all?  The provincial system as it currently exists, particularly after the last round of catchment "reform," doesn't sort folks into any sort of meaningful groups.  We could possibly get behind a 4 province system, if it was distributed by seniority.

2.) NO @#$%& LAND!- You know what claim land they dont control? Bug nations. Land claims to Milwaukee deny reality and are holding Talossa back. It is behavior that is unbecoming of the greatest experimental polity known to humanity.

Holding Talossa back how? Sure, we can talk about being a stateless nation, but to the average person we'd be Just Another Internet Forum. The novelty of land claim generates interest, and also makes it a lot easier to explain what exactly Talossa is. We already have plenty of evidence that Talossa is not a bug nation. Also, let's not take ourselves too seriously; treating Talossa like it is of upmost importance on the world stage, and therefore we are not allowed to do things you think are "unbecoming," is not a great idea in my opinion. 

Many citizens have enjoyed making the Haxh, and I hope to do so eventually as well. If we did not claim the land, the appeal would not be the same.

Novelty?  What novelty?  Everybody and their brother claims a plot of land.  Just wander over to any micronational forum or social media group, everyone claims something.  Their back yard, a bathtub of dirt, a chunk of Antarctica or Mars... you get the idea.  Talossan land claims aren't in any way novel.

What we are not suggesting in a complete and total divorce from Milwaukee.  That's where things started.  That's where the spiritual homeland is, for lack of a better way of putting it.  So go on the Haxh.  I know I enjoyed seeing some of the stuff mentioned in the histories when I wandered around after a conference there.

Claiming land can squik people out.  See Etho above, and I've had similar experiences.  People get the idea that its a weird secessionist thing, like the Republic of Texas or somesuch.

But more importantly, it doesn't reflect reality.  We are a scattered people.  We claim land that we have no actual claim to.  Time to stop and face facts.

3.) NO @#$%& THRONE!- Nobody has the corner on Talossanity. Down with the Monarchy.

A Republic doesn't have the same opportunities for pomp and prestige that a Monarchy has. Plus, most of our citizens come from Republics (as it should be for any "real" government); if they are joining another country voluntarily, a Monarchy is much more exciting. Of course, this requires an active Monarch...

Republics lack the same opportunities for pomp?  No, just.... no.  There can be as much pomp in a Republic as a Monarchy.  Just look at things like the changing of the Guard at Prague Castle, or other similar events.  A Republic just lacks Funny Hats... and us Peculiarists can more than make up for that.

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

Has the irony escaped you? You give something that was built because of monarchy as an example for pompibility within a republic.

[Lüc da Schir]

Nov 5, 2019 8:00:51 GMT -6 E.S. Bornatfiglheu said:

Nov 4, 2019 15:21:14 GMT -6 Ian Plätschisch said:

There are definitely too many, but let's try four before we get rid of them altogether.

Why not try 6?  Or 12?  Or 2?  The important question is, why bother with them at all?  The provincial system as it currently exists, particularly after the last round of catchment "reform," doesn't sort folks into any sort of meaningful groups.

Would you argue that the 2016 catchment reform, that sought (among other things) to have greater geographic cohesion, should also have forcibly reallocated people across provinces, then?

[E.S. Bornatfiglheu]

Nov 5, 2019 8:33:12 GMT -6 Lüc da Schir said:

Nov 5, 2019 8:00:51 GMT -6 E.S. Bornatfiglheu said:

Why not try 6?  Or 12?  Or 2?  The important question is, why bother with them at all?  The provincial system as it currently exists, particularly after the last round of catchment "reform," doesn't sort folks into any sort of meaningful groups.

Would you argue that the 2016 catchment reform, that sought (among other things) to have greater geographic cohesion, should also have forcibly reallocated people across provinces, then?

I would not.

[Lüc da Schir]

Incidentally to the provincial issue, what is your party's opinion on the Senate and the Free Democratic proposal of exploring an unicameral Real Cosa with MMP?

[Ian Plätschisch]

Nov 5, 2019 8:00:51 GMT -6 E.S. Bornatfiglheu said:

Nov 4, 2019 15:21:14 GMT -6 Ian Plätschisch said:

There are definitely too many, but let's try four before we get rid of them altogether.

Why not try 6?  Or 12?  Or 2?  The important question is, why bother with them at all?  The provincial system as it currently exists, particularly after the last round of catchment "reform," doesn't sort folks into any sort of meaningful groups.  We could possibly get behind a 4 province system, if it was distributed by seniority.

Four would be the easiest (each new province could be formed by a merger of two old ones), but the exact number isn't important. Provinces are an important part of Talossan culture and it would be a shame to blow them up unless we really needed to (and at this point we don't). 

Also, the last round of catchment reform was designed specifically to group people more meaningfully.

Holding Talossa back how? Sure, we can talk about being a stateless nation, but to the average person we'd be Just Another Internet Forum. The novelty of land claim generates interest, and also makes it a lot easier to explain what exactly Talossa is. We already have plenty of evidence that Talossa is not a bug nation. Also, let's not take ourselves too seriously; treating Talossa like it is of upmost importance on the world stage, and therefore we are not allowed to do things you think are "unbecoming," is not a great idea in my opinion. 

Many citizens have enjoyed making the Haxh, and I hope to do so eventually as well. If we did not claim the land, the appeal would not be the same.

Novelty?  What novelty?  Everybody and their brother claims a plot of land.  Just wander over to any micronational forum or social media group, everyone claims something.  Their back yard, a bathtub of dirt, a chunk of Antarctica or Mars... you get the idea.  Talossan land claims aren't in any way novel.

What we are not suggesting in a complete and total divorce from Milwaukee.  That's where things started.  That's where the spiritual homeland is, for lack of a better way of putting it.  So go on the Haxh.  I know I enjoyed seeing some of the stuff mentioned in the histories when I wandered around after a conference there.

Claiming land can squik people out.  See Etho above, and I've had similar experiences.  People get the idea that its a weird secessionist thing, like the Republic of Texas or somesuch.

But more importantly, it doesn't reflect reality.  We are a scattered people.  We claim land that we have no actual claim to.  Time to stop and face facts.

Talossan land claims are way more sensible then any of the examples you suggest. First of all, it's not like we decided yesterday to claim the eastern half of Milwaukee; it was built up over more than a decade and supported even today by way more activity than you could find in pretty much any micronation. When someone suggested laying claim to part of the Moon a few years ago, we rejected it out of hand for being the kind of silliness you are talking about; the rest of our claims are not like that at all.

I could of course still go on the Haxh, but it would lose a lot of the appeal. The draw of being in Talossa, even though we obviously don't control it, would be lost.

I have not had anyone think we are secessionist movement. It is obvious from everything we do that we are not. But what we very well could turn into is just a place where some people get together to post on a message board. Perhaps that is what Peculiarists want, but in that case you will need to provide a compelling alternative explanation of why we are all here and why others should want to join us. Our community is pretty good but not so much better than what can be found elsewhere.

Talossa has never reflected reality, and it can't unless we dissolve pretty much everything about it. That is kind of the whole point; to allow people to pretend to do things they otherwise couldn't. So who cares if we don't actually control the land? Facing facts is boring.

A Republic doesn't have the same opportunities for pomp and prestige that a Monarchy has. Plus, most of our citizens come from Republics (as it should be for any "real" government); if they are joining another country voluntarily, a Monarchy is much more exciting. Of course, this requires an active Monarch...

Republics lack the same opportunities for pomp?  No, just.... no.  There can be as much pomp in a Republic as a Monarchy.  Just look at things like the changing of the Guard at Prague Castle, or other similar events.  A Republic just lacks Funny Hats... and us Peculiarists can more than make up for that.

This is not a convincing example. As Epic pointed out, the Changing of the Guard in Prague is just a holdover from its days of Monarchy (EDIT: not quite true, see my next post). When I saw Changing of the Guard in London, it was really cool in part because there is an actual Royal for whom the guard is changing.

[E.S. Bornatfiglheu]

Nov 5, 2019 10:57:59 GMT -6 Ian Plätschisch said:

Nov 5, 2019 8:00:51 GMT -6 E.S. Bornatfiglheu said:

Why not try 6?  Or 12?  Or 2?  The important question is, why bother with them at all?  The provincial system as it currently exists, particularly after the last round of catchment "reform," doesn't sort folks into any sort of meaningful groups.  We could possibly get behind a 4 province system, if it was distributed by seniority.

Four would be the easiest (each new province could be formed by a merger of two old ones), but the exact number isn't important. Provinces are an important part of Talossan culture and it would be a shame to blow them up unless we really needed to (and at this point we don't). 

Also, the last round of catchment reform was designed specifically to group people more meaningfully.

Important?  Why?  What's so important about them?  And if they're so important, how do you justify mergers?  Seriously.  It seems like the only time things are important^TM around here is when we're putting plastic slipcovers on things.

Novelty?  What novelty?  Everybody and their brother claims a plot of land.  Just wander over to any micronational forum or social media group, everyone claims something.  Their back yard, a bathtub of dirt, a chunk of Antarctica or Mars... you get the idea.  Talossan land claims aren't in any way novel.

What we are not suggesting in a complete and total divorce from Milwaukee.  That's where things started.  That's where the spiritual homeland is, for lack of a better way of putting it.  So go on the Haxh.  I know I enjoyed seeing some of the stuff mentioned in the histories when I wandered around after a conference there.

Claiming land can squik people out.  See Etho above, and I've had similar experiences.  People get the idea that its a weird secessionist thing, like the Republic of Texas or somesuch.

But more importantly, it doesn't reflect reality.  We are a scattered people.  We claim land that we have no actual claim to.  Time to stop and face facts.

I have not had anyone think we are secessionist movement. It is obvious from everything we do that we are not. But what we very well could turn into is just a place where some people get together to post on a message board. Perhaps that is what Peculiarists want, but in that case you will need to provide a compelling alternative explanation of why we are all here and why others should want to join us. Our community is pretty good but not so much better than what can be found elsewhere.

People want to join us because we claim Milwaukee?  That's patently ridiculous.  I have all due respect for the cradle of Talossanity, but you talk in circles about how we obviously don't control it, but then on the Haxh you're "in" Talossa.  Which is it?  Is that sovereign Talossan territory or not?

Republics lack the same opportunities for pomp?  No, just.... no.  There can be as much pomp in a Republic as a Monarchy.  Just look at things like the changing of the Guard at Prague Castle, or other similar events.  A Republic just lacks Funny Hats... and us Peculiarists can more than make up for that.

This is not a convincing example. As Epic pointed out, the Changing of the Guard in Prague is just a holdover from its days of Monarchy. When I saw Changing of the Guard in London, it was really cool in part because there is an actual Royal for whom the guard is changing.

The changing of the Guard at Prague castle is a holdover from the Czech monarchy? That's news to me.  The castle guard was established in its current form in 1918 specifically to protect the seat of the *checks notes* Czechoslovak President.