Informal Chancellery pre-assignment thing

[Lüc da Schir]

I'm not the Maestro or the Arvitieir Prima, but I thought I'd kick off some discussion before the EC finishes its job and Istefan opens the seat apportionment process.

First off, I'm happy to see that the Assembly results could translate in four or five parties being represented in the Assembly, depending on whether Iason gets both the FreeDem seats and his own. By my calculations, we could see as many as 7 MAs in the next term, which is exciting as it's almost the number of national Senators! For my part, the MRPT will appoint at least 3 MAs and I encourage the other parties to appoint multiple MAs (if possible). Yes, politics is not everything, but it can be a catalyst for further activity if we have some people who have to visit the board periodically to vote.

As a side note, if we'll have enough MAs, I'd have no reason for being both in the Assembly and the (Provincial) Senate, and could just focus on the latter. This means that the Senate could then have >50% unique members (that are not also MAs).

Second, there's something I'd like to do this term as far as provincial stuff is concerned:

1) Revising the Constitution, in two ways:

- So that it is easier to read and amend, introducing sections and articles like the national one;

- So that it only contains the backbone stuff of our province that should be "hard" to amend, like the name, the flag, the capital, etc., and only the essential parts of the provincial officials and legislature

2) Introducing a code of laws similar to El Lexhatx. We have no clues about which laws we passed in the past unless we scour the board (and the provincial website thing we had long ago).

3) Some sort of far-reaching geographical project, which would be articulated in three tiers:

- Canton reform. Look, I like Garibaldi and Mazzini, but Lorentzio and Riverside are so much more Talossan, could we not restore them? One is the name of one of the most distinguished people in Talossan history, the other is essentially the name of the place where so many early Talossans hailed from, directly or indirectly.

- Township reform. Our two cantons are census block 77 (Mazzini) and 78 (Garibaldi), each with three townships. I'd like to have official names for the three townships.

- Once we have named townships, we can look at having MAs cerimonially represent a certain township, or at people being assigned to townships by geography, personal choice or random sorting.

4) Finally, taking a long, hard look at our province's name. Look, I love Benito for what it is, not for its name. I had encountered a certain resistence to name change when I was new, but it's been six years. Can we have at least some sort of discussion on our name?

[Lüc da Schir]

Re. the third point, map thing I've quickly done to help with township naming in the future: drive.google.com/open?id=1z6FQ0Ab6s_xLPy5xqxFc52gRvfng91br&usp=sharing

[Vitxalmour Conductour]

I haven't seen most of the people that vocally opposed a name change recently.

If we keep the current Canton names, the old ones would make a couple good township names, or if we revert, the new ones would.

I have a suggestion for another township name, but I think I should let Iason say it, since it is his baby.

[Vitxalmour Conductour]

Some prior reading for anyone new to the provincial name debate or who wants to get caught up, including objections to the name Mussolini, original debates and justification for the change to Benito, and the obvious follow-up arguments that that wasn't a very effective change:

MUSSOLINI Provence to Vanish:
talossa.proboards.com/thread/3188/mussolini-provence-vanish

Time for Change!:
talossa.proboards.com/thread/3195/time-change

La Constituziun dal Provinçù:
talossa.proboards.com/thread/3202/la-constituziun-dal-provin

The Hello My Name Is ____ Bill (CC I):
talossa.proboards.com/thread/3203/hello-name-bill-cc

Provincial Name Change Discussion:
talossa.proboards.com/thread/6901/provincial-name-change-discussion?page=1

So to summarize the Provincial Name Change Discuss:
talossa.proboards.com/thread/7209/summarize-provincial-name-change-discuss

[ROUND TWO] Provincial Name Change:
talossa.proboards.com/thread/7269/round-provincial-name-change

[ROUND THREE] Provincial Name Change:
talossa.proboards.com/thread/7315/round-provincial-name-change

Provincial Name Exploratory Committee:
talossa.proboards.com/thread/8702/provincial-name-exploratory-committee

[Lüc da Schir]

Good job, Vitx. Since you brought some of my threads up, let me say that I really hope we do NOT go down my former inexperienced self's road of turning this into a popularity contest, a lazy poll. This discussion HAS to be held, but in a reasoned, pluralistic way.

[Lüc da Schir]

Ah, I almost forgot: I think it's time to tweak the Senate. It's not working bad, but there's stuff that can be improved:

1) The Senate is not the elected chamber and should not have indefinite veto power over the elected Assembly.

If the Assembly passes a bill first, and the Senate votes it down, the Senate can not reject it again if it is passed again by the new Assembly in the next Cosa, whether the bill was amended or not.

If the Senate passes a bill first, the same restriction wouldn't apply: the Assembly could reject it for as many times as it pleases.


2) I've observed that the Maestr(ial?) power of appointing Senators is a little controversial. It was never intended as a way to appoint Maestro stooges to the upper chamber, but I think it has been perceived as such. The alternatives are two: either we still let the Maestro appoint the "variable quota" but reform the choosing, or we elect it.

In the first case, maybe the Assembly can pass a motion to suggest Senators to the Maestro from a pool of former Maestros, active people..., and the Maestro acts on that?

Or in the second case, as soon as the Assembly is... assembled, citizens can petition to serve on the Senate for the current term, and either the Assembly or the Benitian populace elects up to (currently) 2 people?


3) Is a 2B actually: maybe we can explicitly reserve one of the appointed seats to the Maestro, if not a MA already, so that he/she won't feel guilty about nominating him/herself to a seat?

[E.S. Bornatfiglheu]

Just to toss this out here: Does BEnito really need a bicameral legislature?

[Lüc da Schir]

Well, to be honest, it doesn't *really* need it, as it doesn't *really* need anything. But it makes us peculiar, introduces (some degree of) checks and balances, and allows us to have both an elected, partisan element and a nonpartisan element that allows for independents who didn't get Assembly seats to participate through appointment.

I would understand criticism more if the Senate didn't work... but apart for the last term, when nobody really showed up, it did and it was a neat quirkiness that set us apart from the other provinces. We can reform it, e.g. if the consensus is that the Senators by right ultimately make it useless by not showing up, but in the end there's little reason to abolish it. I know that the Free Democrats are in a "down bicameralism" period recently (wink wink), but I'm not afraid to say that I'm firmly in favour of both the provincial and national Senates.

Thank you for your input, though

[E.S. Bornatfiglheu]

Firstly, I don't appreciate your condescending tone. Despite being your electoral opponent, there's no need to be rude to one of your own constituents.

As for the FreeDems being in a "down bicameralism" period, what does that have to do with a blessed thing? I asked a legitimate question, given that it didn't work in the last term. Do we have any indication that people will be showing up this term? How will the MRPT be holding feet to the fire in order to make sure that happens?

[Lüc da Schir]

Fine, the last bit of my comment was unnecessary, if not entirely unwarranted. I was slighly pissed off by you entirely ignoring everything I had suggested before.

Your question is legitimate, though, and I answered you. I hope you did read the other part of my comment:

Well, to be honest, it doesn't *really* need it, as it doesn't *really* need anything. But it makes us peculiar, introduces (some degree of) checks and balances, and allows us to have both an elected, partisan element and a nonpartisan element that allows for independents who didn't get Assembly seats to participate through appointment.

I would understand criticism more if the Senate didn't work... but apart for the last term, when nobody really showed up, it did and it was a neat quirkiness that set us apart from the other provinces. We can reform it, e.g. if the consensus is that the Senators by right ultimately make it useless by not showing up, but in the end there's little reason to abolish it.

1) Do we have any indication that people will be showing up this term?

I will answer you with honesty and expect the same in return. We have records of elected Maestros from the 37th Cosa onwards, and multiple reports of inactivity in between. Despite that, we only apparently failed to elect a Maestro only once, before last term. As I mentioned in my previous comments, which I hope you have read, we could have a 7 MA Assembly this term. All of the potential MAs I have in mind have been seen around here quite recently, so I'm positive that they will stick around. We can't be certain of that, but we can't compel people to show up that's for sure.

2) How will the MRPT be holding feet to the fire in order to make sure that happens?

This question doesn't make much sense to me. Why would the MRPT even matter? Participation in provincial politics is entirely up to individual Benitians as a civic duty. All the MRPT can do is make sure its elected officials in the Assembly and the Senate show up to do their job. I have already tried to get some discussion started, and that's less than a week after the voting deadline, when the election hasn't even been certified yet. I think we're on the good track.

[E.S. Bornatfiglheu]

It was completely unwarranted. I read the whole thread. But one of the first questions you ask before a major overhaul is "do we need to keep it in the first place?" If structural changes are needed, first consideration is whether the structure is required. That's basic thinking.

My question about the MRPT is also warranted. That party has a commanding number of seats in the legislature, and so govt. activity for the province will be driven by this group. You got the votes, show us you deserve them.

[Lüc da Schir]

I think Istefan Perþonest can now proceed to the apportionment process.